FRIDAY 8TH JANUARY 2021 @ 1 PM
I'm hosting Quick Win CEO Live - What is Streaming and how it can help your business with Streamer Tom Young. Come chat with us!
If you’ve never heard of video game streaming then this episode is for you. It’s a rapidly growing industry with the average viewer spending 95 minutes per day on its app that’s 3 times more than Instagram. That’s a mind-blowing statistic. Streaming is incredibly sticky. Interview with Streamer - Tom Young also available below:-
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What is Streaming - Interview with Streamer Tom Young
TOM - The best way I can put it is if you think of it like a radio broadcast, because that's live, you're listening to a voice, but imagine that you actually have a background or a live background going on at the same time. So I could be sitting here talking to you while there I'm also playing a game in the background, or even doing an activity.
It's not just gaming. But that's the kind of channel that I've gone down when it comes to down to streaming, definitely so, but streaming in general is a very weird and wonderful world. If you ever go down the rabbit hole, it's there's some strange communities out there that I suggest you check out of curiosity.
Like ASMR, if you've ever heard of it,
I'm Chris O'Hare you're Quick Win CEO, And as a CEO I've run many businesses, founded startups, consulted for others and even won awards. But in this show, we'll be talking to entrepreneurs and experts and a few others and key concepts for your business. Along with Three Quick Wins that you can take away and apply to your business today.
And every week we'll be finding out about the entrepreneur themselves and diving into a different but important topic.
Competition time. I'm giving away 10 of my favourite business books, including Lean Startup and Business Model Canvas to one lucky winner. These are great for all levels of skill from a CEO to a founder.
And to enter. All you need to do is go to Apple podcasts, subscribe then scroll to the bottom and leave a review. It doesn't have to be detailed. You could just say that you love this podcast. And then when you've done that email quickwinCEO@hare.digital to say that you've entered.
So we have a great show for you today.
If you've never heard of video game streaming, then this episode is for you. It's a rapidly growing industry with the average viewer spending 95 minutes per day on its app, thats three times more than Instagram. That's a mind-blowing statistic and streaming is incredibly sticky.
Tom Young, a semi-professional streamer tells us about how he turned his evening hobby of gaming into a main job by building his own fan base and earning money for sponsorship and tips from viewers. Tom also tells us about how you could use streaming for your business today. It's going to be an interesting episode. So here we go, Tom Young.
Thanks for coming on the show, Tom. Firstly, tell me the last thing that you read or watched, or did that left an impression on you?
It could be a Netflix series, a funny video book that you read anything.
TOM- tell you what the last thing that I actually watched was with my wife last night, and I thought it was absolutely brilliant. It was a Christmas at KFC. I don't know if you've watched it. It was on channel four and, Oh my goodness.
You got to see, it was a bit like being a fly on the wall. You're able to see how the inner workings of KFC works and how they think and how they manage, their marketing in campaigns and how they want to brand themselves moving forward. And I thought that was really interesting their approach to a lot of things, and how, humanistic, it was rather than being very corporate-y. It was very much fun, loving, and family-orientated, which I didn't really, expect from KFC. Just talking about now, weirds me out a little bit, but yeah, I thought that was really fantastic. So if anyone gets a chance to watch that, I suggest you do, because I thought it was pretty good.
It was all about gravy as well. And I was hungry afterwards.
CHRIS Yeah, their gravy is pretty good. But in terms of it, was it a store itself or did they follow a documentary about a store or was it like the headquarters.
TOM - A whole thing, the whole company from the store to the headquarters, to their marketing, to their branding, as well as also to the innovations team.
But like you literally saw it from the ground upwards and back downwards as well with how it's been affected since COVID-19 so it's yeah, definitely a good watch as well.
CHRIS - Definitely. Yeah, hundred percent I think., it's nice to see the different perspectives of different retail type businesses and how we can apply that to branding and marketing.
No, that's definitely a key to your heart is, looking at the different variations of marketing and I guess as well, is why you're here today is because you're so different and you're there in a very different way of getting yourself out there. So, that's a nice segue into, tell me what it is that you do.
What's your business do? What's your day job? What's your evening job, and kind how did you get here?
TOM- okay, so to answer with the first part of it. So the business that I have, I guess is I run my own business as a streamer, which is, something that was originally a hobby and something to kill time that then transformed into a virtual job opportunity for myself to actually earn some passive income.
And then that actually spread into different passive incomes rather than just one thing. I learned how to diversify my money and, essentially try and make it, so I'm self-sustaining without actually having to be on somebody else's payroll. I could be on my own one. So, I started streaming more or less for the reason of, I hated playing games on my own a bit like, how to, how do I explain it? I was playing a lot of, online multiplayer games, but I wasn't enjoying it because I wasn't playing it with friends, cos I didn't really have that kind of PC based game of friends at that point in time. And I also was really into single player games like Skyrim or goals or anything like that.
But I wanted to share that opportunity with other people. I then discovered that there was a big streaming there was Twitch, there was YouTube and all these things, and I could see that you could actually still have the single player experience, but be able to share it with other people in a live
thing and not be interrupted by somebody talking in your ear, or anything like that, you can still be immersed while also sharing that emotional connection with somebody else. And I really. Really enjoyed that. So it turned from a hobby of gaming to a hobby of streaming to then something that actually pays a lot of the bills a month or month.
Yeah, you could say with me, I'm a streamer and broadcaster, but when it comes to my day job I'm actually in digital marketing and I've just landed that job, I've been doing it for a few months now. And I think that's because of, the streaming that I do now that gave me the confidence to go into that realm and also better myself and gain the skills that I need to do better in my streaming work.
CHRIS - That sounds really interesting. But it's, it makes a lot of sense that you had this desire for passive income, that enabled you to do other things. But I didn't know that actually the marketing came out of the streaming. Yeah. I wanna know. How did that come about how it, how did they find out about you?
TOM - So it wasn't the fact that they found me, it was more of the fact that I found them. Marketing was always something that I really wanted to get into anyway, because it really interested to be, but I'd never really knew how to break into that world. And then, unfortunately, because of COVID, I became redundant in my previous job, but that was actually working in the health sector.
And I just saw an opportunity to gain more skills without having to abandon the skills that I've learned throughout my actual like daytime career. And a lot of it was of the conversation that I had during my interviews. Because it was three stages was around the fact that I know a lot about digital prowess about branding as well as also Social media and how I can actually break that knowledge into the business a little bit further and also benefit them while also benefiting me. And since then we've been working together really closely about what I think, what they think and put your heads together and yeah, I a hundred percent believe that because of streaming actually got the job that I have now as a daytime.
So yeah. Grateful for that.
CHRIS - That's really awesome. Are you an accidental entrepreneur or would you say.
TOM - I would definitely say it's an accidental entrepreneur. I started off accidental and now it's incidental because I didn't think I could make buddy. And now I know I can make money and how I could expand that.
CJHRIS - Fantastic, I mean, what makes you get out of bed in the morning to actually get on and do this?
TOM - It's a combination of things, really. I would say my passion for gaming the more of the fact that I can't sit around and do nothing really. I always have to be doing something unless it is something, I'm passionate about, marketing, social media and just gaming in general.
And I think it's more of the fact that If, you know what streaming is, it's not just about making money through broadcast egg and branding or anything like that. But it's also about the community that you build behind it, of like-minded people. And that's what kind of gets me out of bed for streaming.
And when it comes to what gets me out of bed for my daytime job is the fact that I get to better myself and also get paid for that. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Those things.
CHRIS - So you got made redundant and you I'm assuming you were worried about money.
TOM- Oh yeah
CHRIS -. And you. Were streaming before you were made redundant or?
TOM - Yeah. Yeah.
CHRIS - So you monetized it. Basically over COVID. Okay.
TOM - Yeah. Yeah. I really started to think seriously about moving it forward into more passive incomes here, because previously I was just relying on one income source, which was directly from Twitch, whereas because of the redundancy and what that forced me to do and to think about, Oh, how am I going to pay the next bill?
I then started looking at different ways to, increase my net, I guess my net worth. And yeah, it's it's been a fun old funnel journey as well. Cause you get to see in the job that I do now in digital marketing, you get to see behind the curtain and how these large businesses who work with even larger businesses do the exact same thing.
So yeah, I can't do that on a small scale, but they do it on a bigger scale. So yeah.
CHRIS - So let's talk about what it is. I don't think we've really covered what video game streaming is. Can you give me a description for our audience? I, obviously I watch streamers all day. Every days, but let's try and translate that to the audience.
TOM - The best way I can put it is if you think of it like a radio broadcast, because that's live, you're listening to a voice. But imagine that you actually have a background or a live background going on at the same time. So I could be sitting here talking to you while there, I'm also playing a game in the background, or even do an activity.
It's not just gaming, but that's the kind of. Channel that I've gone down when it comes down to streaming, definitely. But streaming in general is a very weird and wonderful world. If you ever go down the rabbit hole, it's , there's some strange communities out there that I suggest you check out of curiosity, like ASMR, if you've ever heard of it.
CHRIS - I have heard of ism. Yeah, there was there's a there's one. I think of quite regularly not necessarily a streaming, but it was YouTube videos called Tasty PC. And yeah, there's some ASMR manipulation going on there. If everyone wants to go check out Tasty PC on YouTube, but they might get some more views, but yeah, theyre milking,
the benefit of ASMR know one knows what ASMR is. It's essential actually this involuntary responsive someone whispers in your ear, you get tingles down the back of your spine and you feel it's almost like an erogenous. er reaction. So yeah, and actually it doesn't not everyone gets it. I think it's a gene.
So some people have the gene get this feeling. I notice I have it, but if you put in headphones and someone does ASMR into a really good microphone, its usually the smacking of lips and the noises of the lips. That's and that, and the saliva in the mouth weird, I never thought this would go down this journey.
TOM - I have a tendency to do that of derailing stuff, but yeah, no, it's streaming, there are so many categories though, but yeah, with gaming its definitely the one that I've decided to go down to because it's something that I relate to the most.
CHRIS - Yeah. Okay. You talked about Twitch.
Yes. And a lot of people actually might not have heard of Twitch unless you're in the scene. Or you or someone, who avidly watches video game streamers. What is Twitch?
TOM - So Twitch is the streaming platform that you can actually go on to right now, twitch.tv. And that's centrally owned and run by Amazon prime.
So they actually own the business and have been doing it for quite some time. They were actually probably the biggest streaming platform out there. But now YouTube has obviously got into that. You've probably seen Facebook have also gotten into it. There are also some smaller platforms like D live and some other ones, I can't think of the tumbler head, but the most notable ones are Twitch.
And they set the foreground and the structure of how, streaming should be done, but not necessarily getting it right anymore because with everything evolving, think eyes are elsewhere. I guess at the moment, discoverability is difficult, especially when it comes down to Twitch because there's a lot of streamers out there.
CHRIS - That's the thing, right? It's standing out against your competition and that's marketing one O one, so I can see how the two correlates. So that's really interesting. Let's talk about how you stream in terms of what kit you use to stream and what is it that you do on a in terms of a stream?
TOM - So the kit that I use, you could probably see the microphone that they have on the stand here, which is a RODE USB mic? I can't remember off the top of my head. Actually. I do actually have a list somewhere. If I could get it quick.
CHRIS - It's probably the same as mine actually. I've got a RODE mic.
TOM - Yeah. And so one of the best that's not like a sponsorship or anything like that is it's the, probably the best mic that I've actually ever owned.
CHRIS - RODE if you here us sponsor us.
TOM - Yes please sponsor me, I want your money, but yeah, no it's it's a really good company to actually even get any of that stuff.
Let's see my channel go into my belt cause I listed it all off a long time ago. Yeah. So the equipment that I use is I'm quite fortunate to have a very expensive PC that can not only stream, but also run games in high quality and also handle a higher bit rate. So that way the string quality that I see can then translate to other people's computers a lot better because if you've got a low end PC or a console or anything like that, it's nobody beneficial that you have an external PC to handle the streaming side while the other PC or console handles, the gaming side of things. But luckily, I've got quite a beefy computer that does all of that for me. It's like Intel i9 processor 32 gigs of Ram DDR four. You've got the PSU is the core CTX 650 a source motherboard GPU is the new RTX graphics cards, the 2080Ti. So it's the super overclocked.
CHRIS - Not got the 30, 80 yet.
TOM - I don't have enough money for that. Too much memory. As in like I've got to sort of state drivers of one heart, they're just hard drive and ridiculous amounts of lighting, whether it be mood lighting or even the legato I can't even remember what they're called, but yeah. I can just turn them off of a button and send it back home or something.
CHRIS - Its like KEYLIGHT
TOM - That's the one key yeah, that's the one.
CHRIS - Yeah. And essentially that's all you need a PC, a Mike and your Camera? I'm assuming is it an SLR,
TOM -but it's better? Yeah. I am using a DSLR though. The one that you can see me on is actually my Brio 4k camera, which is a webcam specifically by Logitech. But I actually have a DSLR
that I use for streaming now, which is one of my newest toys. But before but before then a webcam. Yeah. All I would say is the most important things to have as a streamer is good. Lighting, a cheap webcam to start off with a microphone that can, be optimized correctly and a PC that can handle your streaming that you, I, when I first ever started the equipment that I had, was probably between 300 pounds worth of stuff, only 300 quid.
And I was using a lamp next to me for my lighting or anything. And now that's grown to the equipment that I have now, which is over 8,000 pounds worth of. Of stuff. And I know that because I won most of it in the competitions, Yeah.
CHRIS- Oh wow that's fantastic. There you go. Yeah. Okay. So you’ve explained what the kind of the kit is, but what do you do on a stream, what is it that you actually do?
Obviously, you play a video game and you communicate with the audience, but what's the kind of general agenda of what, how you would go through a stream so people can understand that.
TOM - Okay. So for me I'd set the agenda in different phases. So phase one is introductions and explanation. So the first half an hour of the stream is mostly just talking.
Doing the introduction, talking to the community that I've built cos you have a live chat going off all the time. Mostly having a conversation about that then set the agenda for the day. Most of my days is Monday, Wednesday or Friday, Monday is an interactive game. So everyone enjoyed in or Wednesdays is horror games.
So I will either play resident evil at the moment or a multiplayer games. Other people could join in if they want to. And then on a Friday is a creative or chill stream where I will try out a different skill and I endorse other people to to join in on that. So that could be from something digital to something physical.
One point I did Origami whereas another week I did a music production, so yeah. That's what I co set my agenda too. It's not always about gaming, but it's always about the kind of communal feeling and that's the focus that I've been on. Whereas you'll see other gamers, they mostly focus on maybe be the top person in a game.
Whereas I'm more about the connection that I have between, an individual or a group of people. Because if you think about it people go onto streams or they watch videos for escapism. So I wanna be that person that they escaped too because I want too, basically it's proven successful for me.
I get a lot of self-gratification out of it and it just beads that should, income come from that, be that through a subscription or a monetize sponsorship then happy days. That happens quite regularly. So I'm happy with that.
CHRIS - I've seen your stream and you have all this energy and you're talking about various things.
You've got the chat popping up and I'm thinking, how. One, how are you coming up with all this? Yeah, I'm content, right? I want to keep up the energy. Yeah. And three, how are you getting this engagement for the community? Because that has a massive part of streaming is that engagement from the community that they, that the hook and they want to come back and they want to see more of you because there's so many streamers out there.
TOM - Yeah. That's a good question. Really? So the last one first, so in terms of how I make people come back is more again touching on the personalized side of things. So if you think of it like, people are attracted to streaming because it's live content. And what's more interesting than seeing someone's content say, for example, on YouTube or Instagram or even on Twitter.
And they really liked that content and, they’re like, Oh, that's really interesting. And then they find out that person, that they like there, or their content. For that isn't live actually streams live, and you can have a interaction with them. You can actually speak to them. That’s, that's mind blowing to a lot of people.
And if you capitalize on that, then it can be one of the most serious weapons in your arsenal. So I normally focus on open-ended questions for people, but I also do reaffirming conversations. So I will you'll probably hear me. Pick out a name or somebody is talking, I'll reiterate or say what they've said, so they know I'm speaking to them and then I'll answer their question.
So that way they know I've acknowledged them. And then also I've been able to give them a tailored answer back as well. I know it sounds really robotic if I could of break it down like that, but. Because I've done it so much over the last, I think two years or so, it's become just more of a natural thing. When it first ever started, though, it was very robotic, but it is something that you have to acknowledge the person, make sure that they feel part of the experience of yours, but also the community that you've built.
And you can only do that by again, content on multiple. Platforms that then funnel into the one thing that you want to promote big minded streaming. Yeah. I hope that looks just the first question. The energy one a lot of coffee. Yeah. It's just a lot of coffee, a lot of coffee. And the fact that I generally get excited to stream because everyone has that kind of Thing that helps them relax or, and streaming has become that thing that helps be relaxed.
That's my downtime. That's my time away from the messages. That's my time and my time to shine. And I see that as my opportunity every time. So yeah, that's how I keep the energy up.
CHRIS - That's really interesting because for me doing these interviews, doing these podcasts I notice my energy levels massively increase in one,
I'm excited to learn from, a pro like yourself and, but also to have a, just a really good conversation, which you don't necessarily get on a day-to-day basis, it's usually about work or it's usually about something that's Not outside your remit of of life. And that stuff exists. I know exactly what you mean.
And you've also built this community of friends, right? So these almost friends, there's some of them, cause I've heard, you mention the same names a few times, cause I've watched them and I, and they must come back every single time and talk to you. And they're essentially a virtual friend. Have you ever met any of these friends in real life?
TOM - One person actually so far. And that was before COVID times. It was a coincidence really. More of the fact that at one of my previous jobs, I had to go for training up in a place that I've never been before. I mentioned it in the stream, and they were, Oh, I'm actually bought around that area. I actually live where you're going, do you fancy go for a pint? And I was like, yeah, that's absolutely fine. I knew the person for a number of months. It wasn't, one of those people just came in and was just like, Oh, I know this place. I'm coming here. No. I knew them for quite some time. We'd built trust with each other. And yeah, it was actually a really good night and they gave me a gift.
That was really nice, which was a pair of rubber testicles that go on the back of a bike. Cos I would cycle to work, and they knew that detail about me. Yeah, it's it is one of those things where you do have reoccurring people because you've built that, that from the ground up, you've built that connection.
You've made them feel valued as a human being, they make you feel valued by coming up again because it's free to watch someone. Isn't it really. Going the next step to monetization for those people. Is there a choice. You just need to make it more of a value to them because if you make it Oh, I just want your money and they're not going to get anything out of it.
That can be the end of your streaming career. Really. If you just make it all about money, you need to make sure that you're transparent about everything. And that's what I am.
CHRIS -It's really interesting. They gave you a gift, like almost that you're a celebrity and they were giving you something to make you feel. I don't know that they're saying thank you to you for obviously giving you that value, but also.
Like buying your love in a way. It's not the first time you've heard this. 'cos obviously I watch YouTube quite a bit in terms of the creators. And there was one YouTube that I particularly watch for a while. It was funny how you get fixed on one person before you move on to another thing.
I don't know what that is. But that's really interesting and something I want to, cover with you, because I actually think, YouTube versus streaming, there's a, there's definitely a difference in terms of the audience, but of course, again in a minute, but his name is Simon Wilson. And he basically backpacked across America with no money.
TOM -Oh, yeah, I've heard of this guy. Yeah.
CHRIS - And he basically asked his audience he basically went on Instagram and he was like, look, I'm making a , I'm backpacking across America. I'm making this trip with no money. Is there anyone that can help me out? And he basically got all this money. Gifts. He got people picking them up, staying used to take him to restaurant, give him food and essentially got from New York to LA in,
what was it? San Fran. It could have been San Fran, but anyway, from people's generosity. And that is what that said to me that once you get to a certain celebrity status people almost, there's this barrier that drops and they're willing to give you something and become either your friend or to buy your love, or I'm not quite sure what it is, but it's mad.
TOM - Yeah. Yeah. They, they do. Yeah. You become a they become a true supporter. I would say they would. And they become a community member. And it is a bizarre feeling because you feel like at first you will feel like that. They own it. They own you in an aspect because they've given you money, really? And you feel obliged to give something back to a degree, but, you soon realize that actually those things are gifts and people don't, when it comes to those gifts, whether it be monetized things or even sharing your content, those are gifts that don't cost anything.
You soon realize that you can drop that kind of idea of hang on a second, this person I owe this person for, being able to pay their light fee because they've done it out of their own kindness. If someone gives you a gift with the idea of getting a gift bank, then it's not really a gift as it is just transactional money moving to other places.
So if you always viewed the money that you've received as a gift and something that you've earnt from the concept that you do or what you produce, then. Really that kind of psyche drops that drops pretty quickly. Does that make sense? I hope it does.
CHRIS - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does make sense. I think the thing is as well, it's like you're giving all your time away for free to, to engage these people and be their friends and so there's some value there for them anyway, so actually yeah, they've had, 10 times the amount of value that those pair of bollics was worth.
TOM - Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
CHRIS - Okay. So we know what streaming is. We know what you do. But let's talk about the audience, right? How are you building this audience? I've heard you keep sustaining the audience and keeping them, but how are you growing them?
How are you getting more attention? How are you getting people in?
TOM - So there its diversification, I would say of my content , and ,I would say my, biggest weapon that I've actually had is probably it, yeah Instagram is probably been my biggest weapon in my arsenal of things, but I would say as a vague or branch term would be social media is just another means or another channel.
It's just another base or another channel for you to actually grow yourself. And if you do it right, and you manage your time correctly and engage correctly it can really , you can really yield some results from it, in a matter of weeks or even days like the best way for me to put it in perspective.
When I decided to take Instagram seriously, in terms of engagement and the content that, I produce, I was able to tailor an account that only had I would say I think it was 400, people who weren't active on my Instagram account within a month, I was able to turn that to 1600 people who were actually active and engaged with the content that I produced on Instagram, that then funnelled them to my stream.
And I saw probably a return from my Instagram to my for my, Twitch in viewership and engagement wise. That probably went up by, because of that month of engagement ,I would say, yeah, a hundred percent. I think my numbers doubled just from the small amount of effort that I took out my day to use Instagram correctly.
I did a lot of studying of how to get it to the right sort of tune for me. And that definitely yielded some profitable and positive results for me.
CHRIS - Really interested to hear what. What's your favourite posting that you did on Instagram that just had a massive boost?
TOM - Favourite post God I'll be honest with you.
I don't have a favourite because I have to like the content that I put out. So I would say all my content is the favourite because I don't like to go half arsed with anything, it's either all or nothing. Really. If I don't like something that, how can I expect someone else to like something that's my kind of ethos.
With everything. And I don't produce this sort of thing for the sake of producing it, I produce it because I want to produce it. And I think somebody else will find value out of it. And whether that be comedy educational, or even kind of emotional value out of it. Those are the kinds of things that I try to hit on.
CHRIS - Okay. And what's the most impactful then? Which is the one that went almost viral.
TOM - Oh, okay. So the one that went almost viral was when I first ever got where green screen I produced, you’ve probably see it in one of my streams. I have a kaleidoscope backgrounds whenever I put the green screen up, but I want you to recreate the scene from Queen Where it's just the, faces it with a black silhouette.
So I copied and pasted my camera. So it would be all around the screen and we all just moving in tandem. And I clicked that and put that on my Instagram as well as also our Twitter. And it ended up being recognized by Elgato. The actual company who produces the great screen. They ended up sharing that of there and it ended up getting, I think it was 60,000 views within the first two hours.
And that was one of the most impactful because it was comedy value, but it was also valued to people to say, this is what you can do with a green screen. This is just an idiot, like literally in front of a camera. Just not knowing what he does, but he's able to produce something with something so simple.
And yeah, that was probably the most impactful piece of thing I had from a probation for somebody else. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
CHRIS - That's the same with me. It's like one of my post got shared by the people who I was tagging in there and that was it. So it's making your content novel enough for them to want to share.
And I think that isn't, I think that could be one of your Quick Wins because I genuinely think that's a hack that I think people should know about.
TOM - A hundred percent. I agree with you on that one. I think if you produce something worth sharing and that's worth of notable to the business that you want to aim it at a hundred percent, that is a massive tool and a massive win for anyone.
CHRIS - So one of my friends basically did that and they focused on an author of a book and they were talking about this book that they were doing. And then they were basically reviewing a business. On this business model, I think it was Business Model Canvas. And what happened is that author had reshared that post, that, that video and his views and his likes and whatever, just went through the roof when he got way more subscribers for that. Yeah. Something I've learned my lesson and I tried that, and I did, I managed to get someone to reshare my one and that had a lot more hits than others. Yeah. Do that a hundred percent. Okay. So we know, so we're talking about numbers, right?
We're talking about yeah. Likes and followers and shares or whatever. How are you keeping track of these analytics? What are you doing? You got methodical process around that.
TOM - So with myself with keeping track, if it was to do with Instagram, I am I look at the insights that they provide you. I could invest in some management tools to have a look at the insights, but there is, there's nothing that I want, I'm interested in because I'd rather keep that side of things as simple as possible for me.
Rather than having to stress myself out because that would take away my passion in a way. But when it comes to checking out my vanity matrix when it comes to social media, I am checking the insights out quite regularly to see what people are responding to and what kind of hashtags are working because You'll find with Instagram is a very fickle thing with the hashtags that you use, because everything is so visual, there are tricks that you can do to make sure that those hashtags that you're using are being utilized properly by you as well as also other users, because it's pointless, you just chucking in a whole bunch of hashtags on an image. That's about a dog. But the hashtags are all about a plane. Does that make sense? It's you need to make sure that they're relevant and of value to everyone, including your yourself. So yeah, if anyone needs a tip, I would definitely say, invest some time in understanding the algorithm and the backend of Instagram to make sure that you're getting positive growth rather than false growth. Because what I would say is false growth is. There are thousands of bots on Instagram that are linked to a hashtag and they'll like your stuff, which is great, but li liking only goes so far, what you want to do is be able to have those people engaged truly, which is liking, sharing saving for later, or even commenting because those things will bump up your your. I guess credit score when it comes to, or your credibility on Instagram algorithm. So yeah. It's I could talk about that for ages, cos I know so much about that. Yeah.
CHRIS - Then we need to schedule another podcast talking about Instagram analytics right. But something I found out quite recently in terms of the algorithms, how they work is that actually they're looking at, especially YouTube, more, they're looking for people to actually engage with your content, so they can like it. They can follow you, but actually if they don't come back and engage again, then that follow actually doesn't mean very much. They want someone to stop, look and then engage on a regular basis before that becomes a signal for Instagram to boost your content because they think that people like it. Now Tick tock is massively all about this TIK TOK is hacked at to the extreme.
TOM - Yeah They have
CHRIS - people they know how long that someone will stick on a video if it's good and who to share it with. So if you're on that video for less than a second, they're not video is going to bomb because they haven't hooked him. Yeah. That's exactly how YouTube works. And that's how Instagram on assuming work similarly.
TOM - Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So they want people to stay within their app as long as possible. They try different tactics. I don't know if you've ever been on Instagram and like liking stuff or somebody likes your posts. You go and check out Oh, your notifications to say, Oh, someone’s liked my thing, who was that?
And then you close down the app. But then it will renotify you saying to someone who's like app liked your thing again, but you find out actually that's the exact same person, it's just telling me again, because it wants you to come back onto the app, to then digest more content and, Oh, it's weird. Don't like it its a bit big brother.
CHRIS - It's a social dilemma. Have you seen that on Netflix? Okay. Have a look, check it out. It's basically exactly that it's the psychology of notifications and, what's the name, hypothalamus, it's manipulation, hypothalamus, to release dopamine, every time you have a notification and you
TOM - Really
CHRIS - Yeah check it. Yeah. It's a body hack. Essentially, they know how to get you to dump your dopamine into your bloodstream. And it's massive. And actually, this is what makes social media so addictive. And there's another point that actually the worry that, kids in their formative years are essentially having this dopamine addiction to social media and that's actually affecting their mental health and the depression levels. So it's a massive problem that needs to be rectified, but no one knows how to do it.
So I actually on my phone, I actually have all my notifications turned off for that very reason.
TOM - I've turned that Off of my Instagram. Yeah. I've had to dedicate all my notifications to literally be an icon on the app. And now I have to click in, rather than it telling me what someone's liked or interacted with something because yeah.
No, you have to dedicate time to it rather than have it dedicate you. So yeah, like a.
CHRIS - Hundred percent. So analytics of your stream, right? How are you using those analytics to know how you're doing, how upstream went and then say, okay, this is what I did in this stream. And I had X amount, extra viewers.
How do I learn from that? And then reiterate on that improvement.
TOM - Okay. The beautiful thing about Twitch is it provides all of that for you literally. It does it live as well as, also at the end. And it even sends you had an email with a summary of how well you did how many people unique viewers actually came into it.
So it doesn't actually just show you the live viewers, but it will also show you how many people came onto your. Onto your stream and stayed there for a little while and might have gone as well as how many people individually interacted. I would say verbally, but by text or in the live chat or anything like that?
So what I normally do is if I want to try something different, Or something out of the norm or just something new? I, normally trial that out for, two weeks. So it stream in my stream in terms of, it's probably two to three days’ worth of streaming for me. Because I only stream for two hours at a time or so.
And yeah, what we normally do is about two to three weeks of trailing. And that way I can actually get true, understanding of where I stand with it, because sometimes your first stream about it might be really successful, but the next week it might not be and then the week after it might be really successful again.
So you couldn't really get a true figure until you've actually done the longer haul. Nothing is immediate when it comes down to Streaming because no two days are the same, unfortunately, but the recipe that you have, if you're doing the same thing over and over again, it's just insane. Really. You need to make sure that you're constantly tweaking to make sure you’re be a reactive as well as also proactive with the audience that you have.
So yeah, I would say if you look at things from a wider perspective and troll things out, On a monthly basis rather than maybe a daily basis, because it's easy to get wrapped up in the experience of being like, Oh, I tried out something new and it was absolutely crap this day. I'm never going to do this again.
I'll throw it out the window, but you've never really given it a fair shot. Really have you. So yeah, I would say, give at least a few days, that way you've cycled through pretty much your, existing audiences as well as new audiences to, then get a true figure or a true understanding of the ecosystem, rather that the idea that you've had.
CHRIS - Gotcha. Okay. So that's some really good some good advice if people were doing some getting into streaming. So what about How do you make money out of this? It's a pie. It's your job. Now you actually do this for a career as well as your marketing. So how do you make money out of it?
What's the different avenues. If you offering all this for free, what are you doing? Where are you getting the money?
TOM - So many things. Really. So with me I have my own YouTube channel, which one day this is a long con, really? So with that, one day I'm going to make money out of it? Because I'll get to, a threshold and I'll have enough viewers on it where I could have ad revenue for that . With Twitch specifically they're all three, no four now, actually four ways you can actually make money on it. So once you hit that affiliate program, you could you get two forms of money, through, Twitch, which is bits, which is like their in-website currency , where people will, pay money to have this in-website, currency, called bits, and then they could gift that to whatever Streamer they want.
And yeah, that equates to monetization for you. So a thousand bits would be one 10, $10. Yeah. A thousand bits would be $10 worth of Real money. As well as also you've got subscriptions. So subscriptions for the Joe blogs would be five pounds or four pounds 50 or something like that for a subscription or a tier one, cause there's three tiers.
There's tier two and tier three, a tier two is $15 and tier three is Twenty-five quid or something like that. It's ridiculous amount of money, but that's all for emotes. So emojis, like literally, that's what they pay for. You can add your own value onto that, but Twitch actually takes half of that. That, that cut because they're a business they've gotten the money.
Make money through. The gifting of bits to me as well as also people subscribing to my channels so they can actually have more rewards. So i.e. The emojis, there's also community benefits to it as well as also like an interaction for me. When someone subscribes, I do something quite comical is like triggering a certain sound combined on a game or something like that, you did it the same with me. There's also the ways of sponsorships and affiliate programs. So with myself I'm sponsored by a coffee company. So for every sale that they have through my affiliate link, I get a large portion of the profits from that which is really good.
You could also do brand deals as well. So say for example, a company will approach you or you approach the company and you promote their stuff on one of your streams. Like you promote, their website or anything like that, you could get monetization for that. There are all sorts of things.
One of my favourite things to do is actually work and promote my merchandise because I'm currently looking into making, not only my merchandise for my streamer thing, but I'm also working on making a clothing line completely separate, but also bolstered by the fact that I stream and promote that because when it comes to myself, all I really know is streaming.
So how can I apply that? And the job that I'm doing now into the, into my own revenue or line. Yeah. Clothing line yeah. So yeah, it's definitely something that. I've been pressured about for a while. But streamers allowed me to do that because I have the confidence to do it. And the positive reinforcement.
CHRIS - so how, in terms of your money in terms of the way it's split out? Where would you say is the most profitable part of all of that? Where would you get the most money from?
TOM - Most money and most frequent would be, from Twitch directly for my, subscriptions and bits. Tips, you could also receive as well, but that isn't the, that you organize yourself.
And you provide like a donation link or a tip link, and people could do that. It's literally be like a waiter. Somebody will give you a tip for doing a good job. So it's exactly the same kind of principle you don't, they don't expect anything from you. You're just receiving money from someone for a service that you've provided being that entertainment, or even somebody to talk to, So I would say directly from Twitch would be most profitable because I've created enough value for somebody to actually want to subscribe.
CHRIS - Understand. Okay. And I think for me, I would think the sponsorship would have made you the most money, but I'm surprised that it's not been that.
TOM - No, definitely not. No. I think with sponsorships They all are only as big as what Ive made them so far. So I don't think I'm at that point where it's more profitable for me to do a brand deal.
I think my brand is stronger that the brands that I work with at the moment, and I know that sounds really big headed, but it's more of the fact that just haven't gotten to that point where I've dealt with large enough brands that they want to throw money at me, rather than me throw money at them.
CHRIS - Okay that makes sense. Whilst we're talking about money. And there's a lot of people that own businesses that are listening to this podcast and, they've seen the value of streaming. The thing that we haven't really covered actually is why streaming has blown up so quickly and that's because it's massively sticky, right?
So viewers tend to stick around for longer than other platforms like YouTube and and I think I've read some stats somewhere that according to Twitch they would say this, but the average user spends 95 minutes per day watching. Gaming, that's not an hour and a half every day versus something like 32 minutes on Instagram.
Now, if you've got that audience captured and they're coming back and they're staying for at least an hour and a half every day, you can make money from that. So how can a business benefit from streaming? What is it, that. I'm trying to think of an idea that is so outlandish that, you'd say that will never benefit from streaming, but there must be certain niches and topics that would make sense to do streaming.
So how, what do you think.
TOM - Think streaming is just another evolution of marketing really for a business and also brand er brand, building for themselves. Just remember, like
I'm part of the gaming community or whichever. But streaming as a beast as a form or an entity is literally so many avenues. So a business could make it into something like a talk show where they talk about things that they're interested in or as how the business is doing and making it interactive.
They could have it as like a shareholders meeting, everything that they want to make it. And that's the beauty of streaming. It literally could be anything they want to be. I've seen KFC. Like we were talking about earlier, KFC has gone into the gaming room. It's ridiculous. There are so many companies that actually adores gamers or streamers who do like ASMR or talk shows or anything like that.
But they've also got their own channels where they also talk about things that interest them, or they might have somebody who's part of the marketing team Play some games or answer questions that they have. It could be used as such an important tool because you'll see on YouTube, you'll have the long form content where it's half an hour of them talking about their brand or ideas that they have, or how they got from A to B.
But imagine turning that into a live stream where you can ask, answer those questions that, really gets to the crux of the things. They’re actually, interacting with a human being instead of something that they're only ever going to get one answer from, because it's just a video.
So I think that if you turned to streaming as a business, you would be able to, Done correctly make a lot of money out of it because of the opportunities you create for yourself.
CHRIS - Yeah, I think it's really knowing your target audience as well. If you know what they're going to actually tune in and watch then a hundred percent.
You're going to get a sticky audience. I've been watching it all, on YouTube, YouTube live and stuff like that, where people are coding or creating videos live. No, basically creating the content. They're doing a live and creating the content for YouTube.
It was matter Metta layers of of kind of inception- esk diving there. But I think for me, I'm definitely interested in starting to do it myself. And maybe may have a create a community where people can ask me questions directly instead of around the topic of being a CTO and how technology can help. Watch this space. Cos I think I'll be coming onto the platforms shortly.
So I think It's going to be massive streaming. It's growing, year on year. And I don't actually know what the future of it looks like. I don't know whether it just becomes another platform like TV or, cos millennials are really engaging in this gen Z are really engaging in this.
What is the future? Obviously, you thought about this and in terms of the vision of where you're going, but what's the vision of streaming.
TOM - I think it's the vision of streaming is the utilization or the birth of influence. Yeah, it influencer. I was going to say influencer influencer becoming the new norm because you see at the moment.
If influences of being used by everyday brands now to promote that, that businesses or whichever. I think they will have at some point or another streaming will become just part of the package of having their own inbuilt influences. So say for example, they've built them from a ground up.
It could be Joe blogs from off the street. We've employed him to work for, say, for example, Louis Vuitton, and that they become a Louis Vuitton. Influencer who is completely owned by that business who then goes and interacts and just adds more humanistic values rather than an entity as a business.
Does that make sense? I think streaming in the future is going to become so part of the package of everyday life and business marketing that. We won't even bat an eyelid. It will literally just be that. I don't know if you saw, I think you might have shared it on LinkedIn actually. Did you see the factory or I say a factory is just a giant hole full in Japan of influencers?
They have influencer academies and its literally rows and rows of people stood in front of a camera learning how to talk in front of the camera because Japan has invested so much money into that. And he's exactly the same thing it's already happening elsewhere in, in Japan. So I think it's only a matter of time that you see the USA in the UK and in everything.
It's crazy. Absolute bazaar to find that video so I can share it to you because I didn't even know existed until the evidence.
CHRIS - Yeah. I did know about China that they have almost like a factory of streamers going live. And they basically go to a building because they got the guaranteed equipment and guaranteed internet connection.
Yeah. That's the thing, right? Yeah. Half the world is connected to the internet. Okay. I imagine when the other half join, right? Then you got the likes of Elon Musk's Starlink and they can connect to a super-fast internet. This, and this is why I'm telling people you need to get out there on the internet because there's a whole world is about to explode onto the internet.
TOM - It is it's a scary thought, but it's a very interesting thought that all these things that we think are so foreign now we don't really understand yet is actually. Growing faster than we ever could have expected. Like nobody would have expected streaming to be a big thing. But in the span of what was it since I think streaming on Twitch, I think it's been eight years it's been around, but in the last two, three years it's become so profitable for Amazon is just a drop in the ocean for them. But it's. It's crazy, absolutely crazy.
CHRIS - And that's down to the devices itself, right? Devices are almost plateaued. You can get faster devices, but actually for about three years, they've not really had not really needed a new iPad or iPhone or computers.
TOM - And I've got the iPhone 12 and I can attest to that.
and I'm same. I got the iPhone 10 and I nearly upgraded to the 12 and I and I do you know what, I looked at it and I went. Do you know I just don't need it I'd rather invest in a DSLR camera, and that's what I did for about the same cost. So it just shows you, okay. We're coming to the end of this podcast.
Really fantastic advice and insight. So what about your Three Quick Wins or accelerate your streaming reach?
TOM - I'm so glad that I wrote this down. So I would say Increase your human reach be aware of the content that you produce. And remember to I would say tiny tweaks would be. More beneficial to you and that this, the stuff that you produce rather than big changes, because you're only ever going to expect big things.
If you make big changes. Whereas if you make tiny tweaks to the stuff that you already produce, you're only ever going in with the expectation of maybe a little bit of change or a little bit of an increase when actually you'll be surprised, those tiny tweaks actually amount to a lot of difference. So yeah, a hundred percent, that would be one of mine.
Next one would be treat all social platforms as unique entities and not as similar means. So that means get to understand the tools that you have around you. So Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, TIK TOK. Remember that they all have their own algorithms. But remember that they're all individual platforms and they need to be treated as such.
You can't expect the same message to be sent across and expect the same results back. So make sure that the content that you have has been repurposed and made unique to each platform. And then the last one is recognize that if you are going into streaming that you become the brand. If you're a business and you want to make that into a brand that's, you've already got a brand in built.
You're already ahead of the game for a lot of people by at least a year or two. So if you go in there with a brand already made my God, you're going to hit the ground running. But remember if you're going in with no brand, in mind at that time, you're going to become that brand and you need to represent your best self every single time, because otherwise you're going to be under the microscope a few years down the line.
So make sure you're on your best form.
CHRIS - I love those really good. People are going to get so much value from those. So yeah. Thank you for that. Okay. So streaming, where can people guys, what resources are available if they want to get into streaming?
TOM - So streaming where they can find me. Do you mean, or do you,
CHRIS -No so like how can they learn more about streaming what's the resources?
TOM - So you can easily say, I would say, go onto YouTube with myself. If you want to know about streaming a little bit more and like kind of the intricacies of it, I would say go on to Instagram and type in hashtag streamer tips. I pretty much own the dominant side of the tips on there for streamers, because that's the kind of niche that I focused on for quite some time.
And I saw some exponential growth through that. If you want tools or anything, I would probably go on to Stream Elements because not only do they provide you with all the tools that your need to get started, but they also provide you with the kind of, the bots and the software as well. I use them on a day-to-day basis.
I wish I used them when I first ever started three weeks. So a hundred percent tools wise, look at Stream Elements or Streamlabs depending on which one you want. If you want ease, I would say Streamlabs, if you want to have something crisp and robust then I would say stream elements. Yeah.
CHRIS - Great. And how can people connect with you? Where can they find you? You can find me pretty much everywhere. Find me on Twitter which is @TheBatNut because that's the username that I use and the kind of brand that I've built. So the bat nut all one word, all connected. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, Tik Tok And also LinkedIn, but LinkedIn isn't, TheBatNut it is just Tom Young.
But yeah, if you were to find me anywhere else, it's literally all those social, the platforms under the Batman, and then on Twitch, it's literally twitch.tv/thebatnut .
CHRIS - I hope a lot of these viewers go and watch you cos it's really intriguing to see a streamer in action its almost Voyeurism, I’m watching your inside life and the brain to working away. And you're very much, you're very vocal as well in terms of what you're thinking, which I guess you have to be right. So yeah. Otherwise, it's going to be silent.
TOM - Exactly. Get to talking to yourself because that's literally all I do for a living now.
CHRIS - Fantastic. Thanks, Tom. Really appreciate your time on this. I I implore people to go and see you on YouTube and Twitch.
TOM - Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much. No problem. Thanks for having me.
CHRIS - I really enjoyed that podcast. You can tell Tom is a born entertainer. What did you think about his Quick Wins for streaming. Quick Win number one, be aware of the content you produce and iteratively improve using tiny tweaks of compound interest. Quick Win. Number two, treat each social media platform differently.
Adapt the messages for the relative audience and Quick Win. Number three. Remember you are the brand and if you have a brand already, you're hit the ground running. But what was your favorite bit of the show? Tell me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram Tik-Tok, or YouTube, where you can find me with @ symbol, HAREdigital, @haredigital
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