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What is Clubhouse and is it the future of social media? - with Alex Chisnall
Alex Chisnall: [00:00:00] Say the people who struggled to build an audience on another platform, there's a big incentive for them to start on something like this. And I've never built a social following on any other platform in my life of any size, you know, and I've managed to build. Not that I'm saying, you know, these vanity metrics are massively important, but it's just super interesting how, as we're having this conversation, people who can't build one elsewhere, I, what's mine 12 and a half thousand followers in like a hundred days or something like that.
[00:00:32] I mean, you know, And I've never been able to build an audience on Instagram now, all of a sudden, because it's linked to your Instagram for those who don't know, it links to your Instagram and your Twitter accounts, so for people to message, you, you have to sync your Instagram or your Twitter up.
[00:00:47] I've tripled my Instagram audience in a hundred days as well. So it's, yeah, I feel like we're in the middle of a social media experiment, which is quite interesting,
[00:00:59] Chris O'Hare: [00:00:59] I'm Chris O'Hare your Quick Win CEO, as a CEO I've run businesses, founded startups, consultant for others and even won awards. But in this show we'll be talking to entrepreneurs and experts to help you understand key concepts for your business along with 3 quick wins that you can take away and apply to your business today. Every week we'll be finding out about the entrepreneur themselves and diving into a different but important topic.
[00:01:24] Have you heard of this new audio, only social media platform, Clubhouse, and it seems to be taking the world by storm. In this episode, we find out what it is, how it can benefit you, and whether it's a child of the pandemic. She seemed to make people feel fed up zoom video of fed up with not being able to connect with people socially.
[00:01:46] And this is the first time we've done this in our podcast, but we've invited back. One of our previous guests, Alex chiseling the podcast expert who has helped people get top 10 podcasts, but also as his own number one podcast. Why you ask? Because in the short time span that we last interviewed Alex about podcasts, he's gone from not knowing what clubhouse is to over 12 and a half thousand followers in the space of a hundred days.
[00:02:14] That's a ridiculous amount of growth and something that I've never seen before. If you don't know anything about clubhouse need to listen to this episode, the, here we go again, Alex Chisnall. Thanks for coming back on the show, Alex, firstly, tell me the last thing that you read or watched, or did that left an impression on you?
[00:02:33] It could be a Netflix series, funny video book that you read, or even a quote that you've had .
[00:02:38] Alex Chisnall: [00:02:38] Or a fast food restaurant, but it's not going to be I would say it's going to be a conversation I had the other day with the guys from pure sports CBD and Guy there will Gooch set up their running club.
[00:02:52]And it C CBD brands. Those people probably know what CBD, the benefits that you get from CBD. They've got running club and he's like an ultra distance runner super fit guy. And we were chatting about this guy in clubhouse called Jack Ravel, who ran a hundred K in a day. And we're saying how amazing.
[00:03:10] That was, and I supported his room doing all that. And anyway, this guy will just went well. I'm always up for a challenge. I'm running a marathon in every County in September. I was just that loud in every County. How many counties are there? I don't even know how many counties there are in the UK.
[00:03:25] And he was like 48. I was like there's 30 days in September running like some, every other day you're running two marathons. And I was just like, Isn't it amazing what people think is achievable lots. Some people literally have no ceiling on what they believe and you could probably, without going into a monologue here, take that back to whomever, Steve jobs, or first man on the moon, that the scientists who built that technology to get somebody on the moon.
[00:03:54] But I just find that amazing that somebody could even think of doing something like that. For me running my first marathon last year during lockdown, was it big enough? Thing to do, but to do one every other day to every other day at least one a day, it just blew my mind. So that's yeah, that's my share.
[00:04:12] Chris O'Hare: [00:04:12] I thought the iron man was it was hard enough and I know people have done that, but that's insane. I think once you get to a baseline, your baseline and that you can achieve, maybe a couple of marathons, I think. It's quite easy to say I could just do that every day, but what's the difference.
[00:04:30] And and I think that's something I've actually been thinking about a lot in life is that you've got to get to that plateau. And that point where, you can achieve something where you can start looking at, maybe you can achieve something a bit further. And for me, I think it's quite important for my performance is that.
[00:04:50] I recognize that and that I can do it. And I'll always look back to the times that I can do these things. I don't know if you feel that way.
[00:04:57] Chris O'Hare: [00:04:57] You basically go swimming every morning, but there must've been at the beginning where you thought, can I do this every single day? I bet you that's quite hard.
[00:05:05] Alex Chisnall: [00:05:05] So one of the guys said to be there. I said, we're coming, I'm coming up to a year of swimming in the sea on may the 31st, 20, 21. And one of the guys said Oh, you should have counted how many days you've actually been in the sea since may the 31st. And I was like, dude, I never thought I was going to last longer than a month, or I didn't even know how long I was going to do it for.
[00:05:28] So all of a sudden it'd be faced with is literally nearly a year is insane. And I. March just gone. Now I went in every single day. I literally just made a set my intention that I was going to try and get things back on track because I smashed it January lot, personally, health wise, fitness wise, I smashed it.
[00:05:47] I ran my first half marathon of the year. Got my PB from the 10 K and then clubhouse came along and February and March, suddenly all of the, my non-negotiables in life started going out the window, I set my intention and I went every single day and one of the other guys started with me and he never got there.
[00:06:04]And everyone just kept saying, wow, I can't believe you've done every day. And I was like for me, it's once I set my intention, I'm going to do something. I don't question it. I just do it. And it was the same. As when I ran the marathon or when I'm getting up to one, I did 75 hard, which I've talked about before, exercising twice a day, 45 minutes each time.
[00:06:21] And with the same, it was almost like it's the same mindset is when I run the marathon. It's I'm doing this because it's uncomfortable because it doesn't actually get any easier. I think apparently your body gets used to the temperature over time, but it's still. cold every day when you go in, even after a year of it, and it's dropped down to four degrees, it's back up to nine at the moment, but that still feels bloody cold, and it's just putting yourself through something that's, not particularly pleasurable, but you feel you've actually achieved something. And I go there for summarize, and it's amazing to appreciate that and see the sunrise every day. I've never done that in my life before literally seeing the sunrise every day, You just take it for granted.
[00:07:02] Yeah. So yeah. I love that. And the fact that you started off and you didn't see that was that you would carry on for a year and you just just, but that's what I mean by baseline, you set a baseline and it's achievable. What's next, what's the next thing that you can achieve.
[00:07:19] Yeah. And you sat, for us, it was like, once we'd be going for a month, one of the guys said, Oh, we should keep going until we get to Christmas. And then someone said, Oh, we should try and get through to the new year, see the new year. And then, we'll, we've seen the year. We must have bloody keep going there.
[00:07:33] So it is that whole thing. Whether in business or in life, I think, breaking things down into manageable chunks and manageable chunks for me was literally pretty obvious, but one day at a time for it, and zero expectations, but. You are pleasantly surprised every day. And it's been, I've never seen the fact that every, this might sound really obvious again, but every day the weather is different.
[00:07:56] I don't know if you live in LA. It probably isn't or my Miami is pretty similar every day, but for me, like today, It was glorious. The sun was shining yesterday. I've never experienced this before in my life. I couldn't see one hand in front of the other, walking out into the water. I just saw these four shapes.
[00:08:13] Now, these four girls out there doing the same as what I do. And I know them now because we see each other down the beach, but it looked and I filmed it and I put it out as a rail on Instagram. And it looked like something out of 'em, but Beth or the witches of Eastwick, they literally look like these four priestesses or which is literally like chanting in the middle of the scene.
[00:08:32] It. So random if you come across that walking the dog or something like that, it was, yeah. No, but it's yeah, I love the fact that I get to appreciate every day is very different in the fact that, you listen to some like Tim Ferriss and they're like, make your bed and you feel that you've achieved something.
[00:08:46] I was like put yourself in a, out of your comfort zone and actually get into cold water or, go for a run or crack at workout or yeah, whatever floats your boat really. Like I said, it just gives you that idea that you can achieve these things as well. But I can't even do cold showers.
[00:09:02] I got for about a month of cold showers and the winter hit and I was like, no, the cold water feels a bit too cold. Yeah. I struggle with cold showers though. I found the sea. Easier. Is it cause you dunk yourself all at once? Is that what it is almost? I was doing the showers, but I, for my, cause I was doing the 75 hard, the showers had to be five minutes minimum and I'd get to two or three minutes and I'll be like, I done that.
[00:09:29] And then I would just put my, turn my music on loud and I'd just be dancing in the bath under the shower, just try and get through it and singing a song at the top of my head, like some complete loon bag, but I found it really uncomfortable, but we'll go in the same. We'll go in for longer than five minutes.
[00:09:44] That's the funny thing. And it's like total emotion, wherever it may be. With the shower it's focused on one particular spot. Really? Isn't it? Your head? The Ukraine an air bubble of hate around you. With the shower, you just got that constant running water where it's taking the heat away from you constantly.
[00:10:01] And that's why it can be quite hard. Obviously it depends on how rough the That the city is, but if it's quite rough, then that doesn't really count. But yeah that's what I think when it's rough. That's my favorite. When you get in these huge waves I don't even, I don't even feel the cold, if that makes sense that you do them because all of a sudden you get like this, we call it ice cream head.
[00:10:21] Like your head is literally. Freezing, freezing cold. Because we were like, but just body surfing in the waves, like when it's really wave in it. And it's very different to like yesterday when it was like a piece of glass completely and utterly tranquil. And you're literally, having a quiet moment to yourself if you're on your own or.
[00:10:39] Chanting. If you were three of the girls globally, it sounds strange, but in your own words, give us an understanding of what it is that you do. You're obviously been on this show before, so you can be quite brief, but what is it that you do? Yeah, so I'm the founder of a company called pop Warner and we make top 10 podcasts for entrepreneurs to help them build their credibility and their authority in their space.
[00:11:06] Sure. Yeah. And I short and says things. You've been practicing that because you've been on clubhouse for so long and second intros everyday DME on Instagram for a copy of my free podcast launch checklist.
[00:11:22] So if anyone is listening, what is clubhouse? So we've heard, it mentioned a couple of times on this episode already, but give us a, an idea of what your description of clubhouse clubhouses. For me, it's live podcast meets talk, radio meets digital events. It's some kind of hybrid of those three things.
[00:11:45]And at the moment, the way it works is, if you're not there, you missed it and there's no other way, is that FOMO. So it's literally like hosting. A live event where you have speakers on the stage where the audience can put their hand up and interact and ask questions. And there are, rooms as they call them instead of events running.
[00:12:07] But every topic under the sun that you've ever heard of, from crystals to calligraphy and everything in between, there you go. And it's invite only it's audio only, which is probably why. I like it so much. You don't have to faff about with doing like a live Instagram or LinkedIn, where you got to make sure your, the room behind you is tidy.
[00:12:28] You've got a lighting rig put your makeup on and your case, Chris, and all that visual stuff I have to do on the other day. And it was just like, felt so alien after doing flybys for like a hundred days to then go and do one Instagram live. And I didn't like it. I have to say I got into it, of course, but that.
[00:12:45] Initial bit of setting everything up was like such a ball for me it feels quite similar to the kind of events that used to do where you'd have a small intimate group of people. You'd have a few speakers and then people have raised their hand and say, look, I have a question. And essentially you're just mimicking that quite intimate setting of have got, an audience with your speakers.
[00:13:10]But so audio only, and it can spread across the whole of the internet and actually the whole world can join him and you're not focused on our location. And for me waking up and not thinking about, how I look to go live. Especially I think it came at a good time as well when zoom fatigue, when people just couldn't be bothered going on camera and.
[00:13:34] Especially in the UK. Cause it was like, it became really popular around the third lockdown. And for me, I think everyone was like, I don't want to go on camera anymore. This is a great platform. And I was basically sitting in bed half the time. If I was joining something at seven in the morning, I was sitting in bed, turn it on.
[00:13:51] I have a lesson. And chime in if I wanted to. But what a weird. Niche or that it's become, that's needed. And I do wonder if there was no COVID that it wouldn't exist. What do you think? Yeah, no I'm the same. I wonder whether it's a product of its time, whether it would have happened without people being at home, not socializing not meeting up at physical events.
[00:14:17] And I wonder, if the popularity will increase. Who knows? I don't know. They've already done like another funding round and it's gone from being valued at a billion in January to 90 days later being valued at 4 billion. Hey, you value that? I have no clue, but And the fact that there are other social media platforms, like Twitter have brought out their version spaces.
[00:14:37] There's another one out there that's like a direct rival to clubhouse posts. And then Facebook, I believe literally now are launching one as well. So yeah, no I'm the same as you. I wonder, I really do wonder whether, it was literally at the perfect wave for them. Perfect time. And, people were craving human interaction.
[00:14:55] Contacts, definite zoom, fatigue. You look back, I've forgotten what it's even called now. That party app, that people first, we're the first lockdown that everybody jumped on. And then everybody jumped off that and jumped on zoom. And no, I can't even remember the name of that one now, but at the time their share price went up.
[00:15:09] They were super popular. I think. Was it a house party. You got it? Yeah. Also another app though is quite similar to house parties. It was Periscope. Do you remember Periscope? Yeah. Yes, we should. They've just recently shut it down, but. That feels very similar to the way the clubhouse feels at the moment.
[00:15:34] This has massive hyper on it. And then it's maybe Peter out later on as people's tastes and desire for these kinds of platforms change over time. And I think it's more people are going to go out now socially. Is clubhouse still going to be around there. And then you also think podcasts have been around for many years, and again, they, the popularity went up during lockdown.
[00:16:02]People. I think the appetite for podcasts or always that because people can, deep dive into a particular topic they can multitask while they're doing it. And I do wonder with clubhouse, if you're a listener you can multitask while you're listening, but you would not be able to do it. As you would know, from hosting rooms, you couldn't do it as a host of a room or a moderator slash speaker on stage.
[00:16:29] You'd have to be looking at. The phone or the iPad to be able to do that. But for 99% of the people who use it, who are going to be listening. Then maybe it's, really similar experience. It's just a different experience than listening to a podcast. Cause a lot busier. There's a lot more going on and there's those things like you could raise your hand and look for me for a number of years, chatting to the likes of Rob Moore from the disruptive entrepreneur or Steven Bartlett from social chain who I've had both had on my podcast.
[00:17:02] We were all talking about. How do you get the audience of a pole cross to interact with the host more and then boom, this arrived and no one saw it coming. We did wonder, I think Steven started, Steven was one of the first person I heard talking about it, but saying, is the next social media platform called casts to interact with their audience.
[00:17:20] And then, Hey, maybe he's got shares in it. I don't know, could be right though. But I think another. Thing about clubhouse is that it's quite raw unedited. Great. And tick. Yeah. And so you can't fake being that celebrity or that person was a lot of social media these days. You basically have a whole team running it.
[00:17:45]And so you don't necessarily know if that person's actually influencing what's going on those platforms and. Whereas clubhouse, you have to be the, you have to be the person because everyone can hear it in your voice. It's not prerecorded because there are certain questions and they may have the same thing as.
[00:18:06] They're worried about how they look. They're not worried about how they sound and therefore they just chime in. I was watching no watching. Yeah. Snoop dog, you have a day. And, but it feels watch him because you can see that little icon bubble flashing. It's weird. Maybe there's a psychological element around that, that you feel that you have to see something moving.
[00:18:29] I don't know. To make it feel like they're actually interacting with you look at all the icons of their faces for sure. And you didn't think again, if you form this relationship with that voice and the connotation is obviously with the profile picture and then some people changed their profile pictures and you're like hang on.
[00:18:49] I didn't think he looked like that. I thought he looked like in like your mind's eye, and then the funny thing was a load of us did a not load. Diversity was like a handful of us. Jeremy started it. There was a bunch of us actually met on a zoom and that was. Hilarious to actually see everybody what they look like.
[00:19:05] And people are like just like your profile picture, Alex. And I'm like sheer luck.
[00:19:11] I haven't put a picture of me 30 years ago on there. Like some people probably have done it.
[00:19:15] Alex Chisnall: [00:19:15] Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. They can get away with it right now, but I think that's another reason why, like I said, celebrities, I'm probably using it is that they don't have to worry about that side of it.
[00:19:25]And I've listened to quite a few famous people on there now, and I'm actually, I felt more connected to them through that platform than anywhere I've seen them even on TV, because I feel like it's so edited that it doesn't really, whereas quilted edited all of that. Yeah. Which interestingly, I was in a room and I heard somebody said, somebody say, who was an agent.
[00:19:47]And you looked him up and he was who he said he was. And he was like, the reason you haven't got, the Justin Bieber's of this world on there is because they're scared of saying something that they shouldn't say in a live invite, or somebody asks a question and they get into a bit of a discussion and they drop their guard.
[00:20:05] And next thing it's all over the newspapers. The States, I don't know, give me a tabloid name. I can't even think of one, but I do. I know exactly what you mean. So maybe it's just the celebrities that are driving the growth at the moment, but as they start to become wary of doing that when the high or drunk one of the two, especially if you're in LA then.
[00:20:31] Will they start coming off the platform and will that start to slow the growth of the platform? Because to be fair, I went on the platform because there was all these cool people going on the platform. And I was like, hang on. We'll they're doing, it must be something. Yeah. They've kept to this invite only model.
[00:20:49] I haven't given an invite out for ages now, though. I haven't been bold. I've been incentivized. To do it. It's another action to take, isn't it? It's almost how hard is it to get people to rate and review your podcast? Hint to everybody listening region equals podcast, but it's true, isn't it, to get people to take an extra action that, they're trying to keep it within that app, obviously that connects with your contacts.
[00:21:13] For those who don't know, it connects with your phone and the people that you've got listed in your phone as contacts, and you can send them an invite, but it's another action to take. Isn't it? What's incentivizing you to do it. Yeah. It's an interesting one. And if they opened it to everyone, if it wasn't in, by only, would there be a massive influx, would they literally just be no interest?
[00:21:32] They're only going to know by trying to, eh, Yeah that's it. So I know they keep talking about Android is going to be released soon and cause obviously it's only Fri phones may. Okay. They kept saying Android for about the past two months, I would say. And it still hasn't happened.
[00:21:49] And I think maybe they've lost a bit of that peak that they were. Riding. And I think maybe that's going to allow other platforms steal the March. I don't know, because obviously Twitter spaces is. Still in beta, there's very limited amount of people that are using that. And obviously if Facebook get theirs out, then, these influencers are already built an audience on Facebook, Twitter, why would they got a clubhouse, a rebuild that audience.
[00:22:17] It makes no sense for them. And so they, if they're famous, if the famous people stay on the platforms, they've already done all the hard work. What's the hell is going to happen to clubhouse. It's saying that. Yeah, no. That was one of the interesting things that I, when I first found out about it and read about it, it was like, you could literally drop in and drop into a room and hear.
[00:22:39]I think the examples I gave was, Oprah Winfrey having a conversation, or you could hear Jared Leto, Hollywood actor having a conversation that was like that opportunity to actually have an interaction with somebody that you look up to admire or find interesting. That's one of the attractions, but if none of those people are on there flip that around, say, and say the people who struggled to build an audience on another platform, there's a big incentive for them to start on something like this.
[00:23:09] And I've never built a social following on any other platform in my life of any size, and I've managed to build. Not, not that I'm saying, these vanity metrics are massively important, but it's just super interesting how, as we're having this conversation, people who can't build one elsewhere, I was my 12 and a half thousand followers in a hundred days or something like that.
[00:23:32]And I've never been able to build an audience on Instagram now, all of a sudden, because it's linked to your Instagram for those who don't know, you've you, it links to your Instagram and your Twitter account. So for people to message you have to sync your Instagram or your Twitter up.
[00:23:46] I've tripled my Instagram audience in a hundred days as well. So it's. Yeah I feel like we're in the middle of a social media experiment, which is quite interesting. And they've got this creative program, which they're announcing finalists for on Saturday, coming up 60 finalists, which they'll pick 20 winners.
[00:24:04] And those 20 people will receive five grand a month to create content on the platform. So again, you feel even more part of a real life. TV show then your social media experiment. It does feel like that. And I'd be interested in to see how much your audience has grown your followers on the likes of Instagram and Twitter.
[00:24:28]Is it like a 30% increase considering the likes of your audience on clubhouse? So you've got 12 and a half thousand followers and clubhouse. Yeah, you've done that in a hundred days. So like how many of them come onto your Instagram and followed you there? Yeah you're right. So 2000 people have followed me over there, so that's what 20%.
[00:24:50]And there's an UNF. Everyone's going to have an unfollow rate anywhere, but I've an unfollow rate of about 20% once they get over to Instagram and that's And that's my own fault because in that, what I'm talking about on clubhouse, they go to my Instagram and it doesn't sync up. It's more of my personal life, me throw myself in the sea going running.
[00:25:13] So now one of the new team members that have onboarded is somebody who just looks after my Instagram, because it's a great opportunity to actually nurture that audience. It's followed me from clubhouse, learning about. Podcasting and business and content creation to then go, Oh, Alex, you still talking about that stuff over here.
[00:25:30] And you can learn more over here as well and in different ways. So I think that's really important, but it's not a synchronous as well. So it doesn't require you to be live on Instagram. You can just. Schedule some posts to go out. You can get that all done and someone else can look after that, whereas on clubhouse very time intensive.
[00:25:51] All right. So bill, if you not maximizing, yeah. That connection of the two platforms then obviously, essentially, you're not going to get the exposure unless they go back onto clubhouse and actively listen to you. Therefore, that's why I think. The Instagram connection is so vital and Twitter as well.
[00:26:12]But I think more people go to Instagram because it's way more popular, especially with a certain age group. Twitter tends to be a lot older. And if you don't maximize that, then you're missing a trick. But let's understand how your currently using clubhouse, like what are the rooms that you currently do?
[00:26:28] You go in other people's rooms? What are the things that you do on crop health? So it's changed in a hundred days. So when I started, I went into every room. Yeah. Like a kid in a sweet shop. You want try everything. And then you work out that to get traction and to build your own audience and attract the people you want to attract and repel the people you want to repel.
[00:26:53] You need to put your own flag in the ground and own that piece of online real estate. So then it was, let's start our own rooms and then let's build a club where we host rooms within that club. And for me now, We hosts. So I have a cohost Sabrina stocker people will know her from being in 2000 eighteens, BBC TV apprentice series.
[00:27:21]And we co-host a daily show like a brunch show, 10 to 1130 every day, seven days a week. And then we also host evening shows and now we've started hosting of the people running rooms under our club. So more content essentially coming from our club. It's almost like our TV station or our radio station, people running different series under that people who, you come onto the app and it can be quite a daunting place.
[00:27:53] Anything, how can I, people are scared of starting a room and no one turning up. Whether you're a brand coming to the platform, a celebrity or Joe blogs and what we're all the same. So if people start a room under our club, because we've got thousands of members on there, they get notified whenever we go live.
[00:28:14] So an audience will always turn up. So that is the attraction for somebody wanting to be running rooms under our club. And some people don't want to run clubs. They just want to. Talk about stuff they're passionate with and they don't want all of the other bits and pieces that come with running clubs.
[00:28:29]So that's what I've do. I've got super strategic just because of, you said, as we've said a couple of times, it's a massive time suck and it's also an energy suck. It really is. It takes a lot of energy. So I've got super strategic, also host two podcasts in rooms a week with Rob Moore, but I've got a bit strategic with all of that now.
[00:28:46]And I literally just run my own. Rooms with Sabrina. We try and give each other two days off she's in Dubai. So her weekends, Friday, Saturday, minus Saturday, Sunday in the UK. And I do feel a responsibility to be an active host when people run rooms under our club, which again is more time, but it's meant I'm not going into many other people's rooms, which is where you can build your audience up because the people coming to my rooms.
[00:29:16] A percentage you're going to be my regular loyal audience and yes, they're going to be some new people, but the follower growth has massively slowed up. And that's a thing anywhere anyway, on the platform you speak to other people it's the same across the board, but that's also mirrored by my behavior and not having the time now to go into all these other rooms.
[00:29:38] Now that the world is opening up now that my. My business has taken like a year to get back to where it was suddenly super busy again. So you've got to get, super strategic with your time. I love how you said that about your energy, because that was the big thing for me. And it was the feeling that if I was in a room, I had to partake in that room and I couldn't just sit back and enjoy it.
[00:30:02] And therefore, even if I wasn't speaking. I still have the same kind of energy levels being expended. If I was saying nothing as if I was talking and it's one of the reasons why I backed out of doing as many cup house rooms, especially doing your own room. And so I, I know exactly what, so when I started doing my own room, I knew exactly how you feel.
[00:30:25]And it's quite. It's quite daunting day in, day out that you've got to do this thing, and you've got to use this energy and, you've got something of a deadline or something that's coming up at the end of the day. And you feel like you saw in this room, give it all your energy to this thing that you know, that you've got to do something really hard at the end of it, after you've done the room.
[00:30:45]I'm really glad you said that. And I think a lot of people will probably resonate with that who are already clubhouse users. But I love that, that you talked about how the following. Has slowed up. It's almost like you've created your own network and your own bubble of people. And you're not to break through that bubble.
[00:31:03] You've got to go in other people's rooms who have created their own networks and that's social media in general. So if you're thinking about social media, you have this feeling that you're only marketing to the same people over and over again. And it's very. It's very difficult to break out of that.
[00:31:20] And that's why you've got to do all these old school PR tricks of going to talk on other people's podcasts and go into webinars, do webinars for new people or to go to conferences. And it's about creating your. You break in for these bubbles of your networks to bring new people into those networks, fresh blood.
[00:31:44] And I think that's something else is really important is that you're going to bring that fresh blood into things. Otherwise it can get quite stale quite quickly. Maybe clubhouse feels a bit like that sometimes, especially when they go to the same people on the stage right now. Cause you know, they're going to say the same thing over and over again.
[00:32:01] Yeah. And that's something that we're aware of and it's been voiced. Is that you don't want to see the same faces on the same stages all the time. So we're always up for, and we always articulate it, put your hand up. If you've got something share DME on Instagram or can look at your profile.
[00:32:19] If you think the subject we're talking about today, you've got something to, you've got some knowledge or expertise that you believe you can share with the audience. Or if you've just got a question and you want to come up, whereas there are other rooms, he can't do that. But I get, I think as well, I've got bored with the going in there.
[00:32:35] These are the rooms. That's another reason that I don't go in those rooms, and you can see what people's intentions are. Yeah, we'll see. It'd be interesting. I do think if Android comes on in may then in theory, it should get really busy, even if you're losing people because the weather in the UK is really good and you're losing people from the app because.
[00:32:54]Life's gotten in the way, but you just think if Android coming on board, surely that's going to more than make up for the shortfall. Cause at the moment there's any 14 million people on the app, January, there was a million, really interesting. We spoken a lot about the semantics of clubhouse, but.
[00:33:11] Maybe you need to go into a bit more detail about the benefits of the rapid growth of one, your business, right? This is crazy. This has plugged a hole that probably COVID created to how it's blown up social media, but like in a way that I don't think people can really understand like, You cannot get that kind of growth any other way on social media, without something like clubhouse and three, the authenticity of your brand.
[00:33:40]We spoke about it briefly, but I think those three things as really enabled people to get one, if they've had no following before grow rapidly, would you say there's any other benefits outside of those? A clubhouse. I definitely think it's a great brand building exercise. If you want to speak clearly, it's also a great opportunity to learn from people who, get access to experts in their field and access in the.
[00:34:15] Getting people on their podcasts. I literally, while I'm speaking to, you got a message from someone who won the rugby world cup within Africa, who I've just arranged a podcast within literally the last hour, via a message for me to get access to someone like that. Normally I could, but it would take a few months work to get there and go through levels of red tape.
[00:34:39] So for me, the connection. Is one of the benefits of building your network. Something that I've done through having my podcast scourge is do it through hosting live events. So definitely the connection and how quickly you can make that connection. And then that community, building a community that wasn't there before.
[00:35:01]That for me, whatever social media platform I used before. It didn't feel natural. Didn't feel that word authentic. And it was all a lot of effort for me, like writing a post on Instagram, picking a picture, picking a title, picking the keywords. That's an absolute ball. Like for me doing video is an absolute board like me doing a Facebook live or a LinkedIn live.
[00:35:25] Just, I just don't like it. Whereas. For me, the benefit of this was that I just spoke, like I'd speak at a live event or like a speaker, my podcast, and people would resonate with what I was saying. And people would drop me, messages. People want to work with me and that's enabled me to then hire more people and build a team and, impact more people by creating podcasts for them.
[00:35:50] So yeah, for me, it's definitely been, that connection and then the collaborations have come off the back of it, reconnecting with people. That I used to be friends with in the real world and we've bumped into each other on the app, thus being quite mad. Some people like Pete Cohen and Maria hat's sister , people like that.
[00:36:07]Yeah, it's been very interesting. Very interesting. Like you said, I can experiment. But I wonder it's because the celebrities and, normal people, normal folk have a level playing field. And that's created essentially the ability for you to connect with the likes of this new podcast guests that you've got.
[00:36:31] And if at the moment you're currently on this peak, right? So you're you could probably define yourself as a micro influencer, but as the audience grows. So it goes from 40 million to 140 million you're on this top of this peak. Those people that would have seen the benefits of potentially making the connection with those celebrities, will they not be able to get those connections because such you're still very early days at the moment.
[00:37:02] And therefore there's going to be a lot more people trying to talk to these people. And I've met some people on there that I would have interviewed on my podcast and I thought it was great. I've probably never connected with these people before. But if I hadn't, maybe if I joined clubhouse a year later, when everything's taken, all the influences are on the stage and then everyone else, I probably wouldn't have the opportunity to get on stage and talk to that person.
[00:37:31] Yeah, absolutely. I've ended up going into rooms and everybody does this there, Dave. Become aware review. They can see how many followers you got and you get brought up on stage. And I've ended up getting brought up on stage in rooms with bloody vanilla ice and MC hammer. Larry is in the world.
[00:37:53] Would you interrupt where w where I get the opportunity to interact with people like that? I think it's hilarious. I didn't even want to be on stage with them, but people just look at you send you an invite to come up on stage, Oh, here I am bunkers. Or you say, whether that changes attack or, look celebrities a big created every day.
[00:38:11] So if it becomes a. Must be. They must be heard playgrounds. Then in theory, there's always going to be a stream of people wanting to come on there and build an audience and look for all of these people. You call them influencers, celebrities, or whatever. They're always looking for another touch point to interact with their followers and give them something that they can't get somewhere else.
[00:38:35]It's why somebody. Launches a book, why somebody then launches a podcast or somebody that goes on a reality TV series, it's creating new content for that audience. So you'd think clubhouse gives that so very much took over your life, right? Clubhouse in terms of the way you did marketing.
[00:38:56] Going to the wifi. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. And Sabrina would love to hear that. I'm sure. Online hubby. Yeah. Hello. But it, in terms of the way you do marketing has this forever changed the way you do marketing in terms of. You put your time and your energy. Temporarily it's definitely taken over because it's, you've got this spread out effects, across Instagram and you other platforms and businesses and the rest of it, but going forwards.
[00:39:24]This always be the case or where you be looking at. Are you always going to be looking for the trends and trying to ride those waves when the new platforms come out? So when you know, split rooms becomes more of a thing or Twitter spaces becomes more of a thing. Will they get your time and energy?
[00:39:40] Or are you just focusing on clubhouse because you've already built the following there? What w what's your thing? That's a good question. Yeah, it's funny. I sent Rob Moore a message the other day for those who don't know, like Rob Morris built a following of like 250,000 people in a hundred days, which is just insane.
[00:39:57] And it's more followers than he's accrued over 15 years on every other platform combined. And I'll send him a message because we host these podcasts rooms together. I literally just said, gee, do you honestly think we still going to be doing this in a year? It's not sustainable. It's not sustainable.
[00:40:13] Takes a lot of energy. Even if you think of people who host a daily radio show, they're not going in other radio shows and. Answering questions and listening. They might be listening in the car on the way to work, but not being an active participant. Look for me. It's interesting. I've actually gone back to the other forms of social media that I've actually neglected recently, which we're starting about tomorrow.
[00:40:38] I literally haven't been on LinkedIn or Facebook or any of these platforms, like a hundred days. If I had a bigger team, y'all would've stayed on there, but because my team was a certain size and now it's this size, you focus your attention. Where you getting a reward, don't you? The example being, I went and did a Facebook live in my Facebook group of like nearly 800 people.
[00:41:01] And I think two or three people turned up same day. I did. And I marketed that for a week in the group. This is the date we're doing it. This is the date we're doing. Here's the artwork, is the, create the event. Everyone gets a notification, went on club, house, zero marketing. Put a room on 2000 people arrived during the course of 90 minutes.
[00:41:21]It's a no brainer. Yeah. It's a no-brainer what costs, why would I spend my attention and Rob Moore? I think I remember him saying something similar that, you know, and his rooms get far more people than the mine because he's got more followers there. There's followers get notes for when he goes live, but he said same thing.
[00:41:38] He did a Facebook post that he's got, I don't know, 160,000 people on Facebook. And he said, Facebook showed it to 120 people. Yeah. He goes in clubhouse and he probably has a sticker zero on the end of what I do. He probably had 20,000 people turn up over 90 minutes. So you focus your attention where you're, that dopamine hit where you're getting rewarded, don't you?
[00:42:00] So I do think it will change because it's not sustainable, but whether we. We still have a daily show, but everything else is being run by other people. That's probably more, I could see myself doing a daily show still. You know that 30 minutes, 60 minutes, 90 minutes, or just, wouldn't be spending 18 hours a day on the app, which, yeah, we've all been there.
[00:42:23] Done that at some point in time. I definitely did at some point. And no, I literally did nothing for a month and clubhouse basically did nothing for a month. Yeah. And then I was like the real world sin exists out there and I actually have to have make money. So let's. Let's curb my addiction.
[00:42:39] Cause that's what it was. It was dope.
[00:42:40] Chris O’Hare [00:42:40] Hits, like you said. And that's really funny, but that's interesting though, that the brawl notification of something like clubhouse, that's not being micromanaged by these social media platforms, so Facebook micromanagers it because that's the way it works.
[00:42:56] Why you do a post, you go in a feedback loop, it will show it to a certain amount of people. And then it goes up in another loop and show it to a bigger audience and a bigger audience and a bigger audience. Whereas the likes of clubhouse, probably one, they're not clever enough to do that yet, because they're so small.
[00:43:12] So in you and the other thing is that's. I do get, I do feel like I do get a bit of a clubhouse bombardment though. I don't know how you feel. Like lots of people inviting me into it. And I have had blindness to certain rooms that I actually do would like to go and join because I've seen certain.
[00:43:33] No it's vacations. And I've just assumed that this is not the room for me because loads of people have invited me in. And that, that is frustrating. I do I miss your room sometimes because I don't necessarily see the notification come up and I just, it's just not in my frame of mind to remember, to go and do that.
[00:43:48] It's not like I set a calendar reminder. And so I could see why Facebook and the likes do manage notifications because he wants to give you the best results that you actually engage. Because that's the trick, right? Is that they get you to engage on things that you want to engage in. But I think that's the point.
[00:44:05] I think that's why you and the likes are more really focusing in, on, on doing clubhouses because they just don't have that micromanagement yet of your followers.
Alex Chisnall: Yeah. And he literally said it open at the start. I've literally told my family that. I'll see a peak coincide at the same thing.
[00:44:23] I'll see you in three months. I've recognized this as an opportunity to, build a community scale. My audience, get my message to a wider audience and I'm going all in. And, I had that conversation with Sabrina, my co-host, she literally just said, First of all. I, she tried to get me on the app, I think three times before I accepted.
[00:44:44] And then I was like, because the first reaction was, how much do I need another social media platform in my life? Like zero. Then when I was on it, I'm like, I'm so grateful that you did. And then she was like we need to double down on this. So February, and I was like a hundred percent. I've recognized that as well as double down on it.
[00:45:01] And then it goes to March and she was like, we need to triple down on this. And I'm like, Oh my God, we do. But I don't know if my health can take it, but we did by committing to a daily show Monday to Friday, then Monday through Sunday show. So yeah, look it's been, it is super, I hope it continues.
[00:45:19] I hope that people that are. The first to market those early adopters feel invested enough that they stick with it and enough curious new people want to come on and then find it sticky enough to hang around as well. So it's, it's been transformative to my business. I'm in the audio business, it's an audio only app, one of those moments.
[00:45:45]And Yeah, clearly, for one way, shape or form, I've had my podcasts for nearly four years now it'd be four years old next month. I feel quite comfortable in an audio environment and that must come across on clubhouse as well. So for me, yeah fully invested. And we'll yeah, we'll just continue to double down on it and we'll see where that takes us.
[00:46:08] And so we have to. Making make adjustments on the journey as we go, having had conversations yesterday about strategy and you see what other people are doing and what's working, what's not working, so we'll just, yeah. Keep adjusting it. But for the moment it's been great. I couldn't recommend it more, highly enough to any people, but at the same time with that, disclaimer, don't let it take over your life.
[00:46:28]I'd agree. Yeah. All right. What's the advice that you give to people first, starting on clubhouse. What's. What is it that they should think about? What is it they should do? It wants to hit clubhouse. How can they get the most out of it? So I think, I always remember Pete Cohen saying this when you first come onto the app and our whole Hartley grew in fiscal, when you have listen, just listen, just go into rooms, listen find, what resonates with you, who resonates with you?
[00:46:57] Follow those people. And you will then see rooms as they call them, events every day from those people. And if you there's a notification bell, if you switch that to always, when that person hosts anything on the platform, you'll be notified of it. Whereas if you follow for follow sake, you'll only see crap rooms.
[00:47:19]If you follow people because they're good-looking or you find them funny, or I dunno, whatever, then. If they're running rooms on, I don't know. Generally grasshoppers, then you're only going to see rooms about genuineness, grasshoppers, no idea where they came from. Thinking something to your background, being green.
[00:47:34]reckon sub-codes just lay, I was thinking green animals insects, but I would listen. I would follow those people that I resonate with and I want to hear more of I would identify where there's a gap in. What you would like to learn about where you feel your interests and your expertise meets, and then start a room talking about those subjects where you feel is lacking on the app, but do it with somebody else, reach out to other people that you've been following and see if you can do something with them.
[00:48:12] Cause everybody's up for collaboration on the app to start with. I couldn't say no to. Everybody who wanted to collaborate, because again, it was addictive that dopamine and doing different rooms with different people. But now it's, I've learned to stay in my lane and it's very much, I think starting out in as an entrepreneur, you say yes to everything.
[00:48:29] Maybe when you're in twenties and thirties, when you then in your forties and fifties, you start to learn to say no to everything because you want to stick with your mission and your goal, but to get those opportunities that lead you to your goal, you often have to say yes to everything at the beginning.
[00:48:45] You've just get a bit more. Focused and strategic with it. Yeah, that would be my advice. I could go on and on, but that would be my advice initially coming onto clubhouse. Yeah. So we'll wrap this podcast up now, but I want to get your three hacks when it comes to, clubhouse, building your clubhouse, following your top three quick wins, what would those be?
[00:49:06] Building a club has following three quick wins. So I would say let's go follow people that you truly resonate with. Reach out to them and see if there are grounds for collaboration. I you've gone in a room. You've listened to them. Send a message on Instagram that you enjoyed speaking to them, that you're thinking of starting a room hosting X, Y, and Zed.
[00:49:32] We, you would love to host a room with them because you resonated with what they were saying. So that will be one hack because you can't do it on your own. You really can't to it would be as soon as you can start doing your own rooms and. Don't be put off by the fact that two people might turn up.
[00:49:52] There's still two people, two more people than you knew yesterday that you impacted yesterday. And third is, this is broad, general advice that you can take for anything in life, but just be consistent with our source. I've seen so many people on the app or become friends with who stopped doing that.
[00:50:10] They did a couple of rooms. They ran a room for weeks, maybe a couple of months. And then they stopped for me. It's like anything, whether you're saving money, whether you are, building a business, small actions compounded over time, lead to success. And even though it is really tough doing something daily I've definitely seen the benefit of doing that.
[00:50:34] On a regular basis, literally just being consistent with it. So yeah, those would be my three quick wins as being picky wins. Yeah. And if anyone wants to go away and learn more about this, do you know where they can, what role resources are available for them? Actually put together a course on clubhouse.
[00:50:55] Which I haven't actually mentioned to anybody yet on any platform with with a guy called Scott Stockdale over on Udemy, U D E M Y. So if you know the Udemy platform so me, Alex chisel, Scott Stockdale put together a course on how to get the maximum benefit from clubhouse. So that, that will probably be the most obvious starting point, I would say, other than listening to them.
[00:51:19] And if people wanted to. Connect with you on Eva clubhouse or about your podcasts what's is the best way of doing so how can they connect with you? Yeah. Easiest way for me is it's funny, direct everybody to Instagram now because the club house, but I would say if you're on clubhouse or you're coming into clubhouse, do follow me at podpreneur is my handle.[00:51:42]On Instagram, I'm at Alex Chisnall with an underscore at the end. You'll be able to find me and yeah, my podcast is called ‘Screw it Just do it’ in the country, the entrepreneurship space. We'd love for you to listen and let me know what you think of it in the reviews.
Chris O’Hare: Great. Awesome. Thanks Alex.
[00:52:06] Are you impressed with Alex's follow grow? I certainly what did you think of his quick wins? Quick win. Number one, all the people that you resonate with, I'm reach out to them to see if they would like to collaborate, but quit. Number two, as soon as you can start running your own room quick, win number three, be consistent with running your rooms and don't give up.
[00:52:28] But what was your favorite bit of the show? You can tell me on clubhouse, LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tik, TOK, or YouTube, or you can find me without Haddish, too. I remember there are several other podcasts available to listen to which you can find on Apple podcast, Spotify and YouTube. Why should the be so grateful if you can subscribe, write a review until next time.
[00:52:52] I'm your Quick win CEO Signing out.