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Thomas Power: [00:00:00] But because this is the last generation of humans they're being, consumed, they're being, dare I say, their fodder, they're fodder for the machines and the machines are eating this last generation of humans before they become one with the machines, because the humans are going to fight back and then merge. I do think the human race will make it through. Yes we may lose a lot, but we are, in this next 30 years, we are upgrading the human race to machine levels. This is not just having bigger muscles or bigger six packs, or being able to run as fast as, Usain Bolt, we're upgrading a human race. Almost like we're having a software update and we're all going to have it in the next 30 years. And some won't make it and some will, to prepare to become an intergalactic species.
[00:01:08] Chris O'Hare: [00:01:08] I'm Chris O'Hare your Quick Win CEO, as a CEO I've run businesses, founded startups, consultant for others and even won awards. But in this show we'll be talking to entrepreneurs and experts to help you understand key concepts for your business along with 3 quick wins that you can take away and apply to your business today. Every week we'll be finding out about the entrepreneur themselves and diving into a different but important topic.What a treat we have in store for you today, we get to have a peek inside the brilliant mind of one of the pioneers of social media, Thomas Power. Thomas co-founded. Ecademy in 1998 and network your platform for business leaders at the dawn of the internet.
[00:01:55] Since then, Thomas has gone on to author eight books and worked with several leading names, including The Apprentice’s Lord Sugar, Former Microsoft CEO, Steve Ballmer and Former Monk, Jay Shetty. And in this podcast, Thomas tells us all about how you envisage the future of technology from humans merging with machines, reaching singularity to cryptocurrency bulldozing the financial institutions.
[00:02:24] So here we go. Thomas power. Thanks for coming on this show. Thomas. Firstly, tell me the last thing that you watched or read or did that left an impression on you? It could be a Netflix series, a funny book you read a quote you heard, anything,
[00:02:41] Thomas Power: [00:02:41] Chris, thanks for inviting me on your show. In the last 24 hours, the chief executive of one of the boards, I sit on the one in New Zealand and Australia.
[00:02:50] He put something on LinkedIn. A picture of himself. It was a podcast interview with one of one of the journalists down there in New Zealand. And he just put this little thread with it. That business is hard, but you just have to keep going. And it's just sat with me for the last 24 hours on my walk this morning with Penny.
[00:03:16] Because business is hard and you do have to keep going. And I know it seems terribly obvious, and it's not really a revelation, but I like, because I've sat on so many boards of directors over the last 30 years, I just it's nice to be reminded the difficulty of creating business, which is why the exceptional performers, your apples, and your Netflix as your Googles, your Facebooks.
[00:03:44] They have something unique, those particular companies, and they have Microsoft, they have these genius, chief executives, they're geniuses. And I think in the generation that you're growing up in, in your thirties, I'm in my late fifties you're growing up inside almost like a virtual reality system, like a matrix.
[00:04:08] And that matrix, that system, we call it the internet or the worldwide web or VR or whatever label you wish to give it. You've got 4 billion people, half the planet playing inside this matrix, but the matrix is actually run by probably about a dozen geniuses, but like bill Gates, like Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Page, like Daniel EK at Spotify.
[00:04:33] And your generation have got to operate inside a giant computer game. And you too talk about the market talks about AR and VR and these forthcoming technologies from we're all gonna sit there with our masks and helmets on. I don't think they don't realize they're already in it. You're already in it.
[00:04:54] And during the, during that same time, you've got this situation where every single product is under attack from a competitor. Sometimes a free competitor, but I think the interesting thing about the 2020s is this is the decade when money itself is under attack from Bitcoin, from a theory I'm from polka.money itself, the us dollar, the Pound note, the Euro, the yen.
[00:05:21] The renminbi EV even money is under attack from competitors. And I find that very interesting that there's no sacred product or utility that isn't going to be attacked by one of these technology. What can I call them? Embryos? And this intrigues me because it's going back to Adrian's thing is it's not just that business is hard and you've got to keep going.
[00:05:47] Is that you've got to get better at playing a game in real time in the matrix where you're playing in real time. And you're buried in messages and notifications, social media news. Upside downside. And to be a board member, to be a chief executive, to be an inventor, to be a creator during this time in real time, it's very hard to make good decisions in real time.
[00:06:14] Very hard because making decisions require considering choices and considering choices require. Receiving information, observing it, considering it debating it, dismissing that, accepting that dismissing this, experiencing that's okay. That's brilliant. And that's not there. And then choosing, and then making a decision and then giving somebody the opportunity or the responsibility to implement that decision.
[00:06:40] That's what you do on boards. But you have to now do that in real time when you have no time to consider very little time to debate. And that's a big change and it's accelerating. And of course, when you roll forward to 2050, you see the singularity where man and machine becomes one in the 2040s. When the machines are inside our heads where the devices on the internet, the 8 billion devices on the internet, the IOT devices, they're us, where the IOT devices.
[00:07:17] With the AI it's us people say, Oh, you know what happens when AI can take? So when we start getting governed by AI, and I think that it's us where the AI, but the exciting thing about the opportunity that you have, I think in your generation and with blockchain, with tokens, with competitive money, with non fungible tokens NFTs, as they're now labeled, but basically tokens.
[00:07:44] What with this richness of technology and the richness of competitors competing with cryptocurrencies as well as alternative forms of money or reward is you see a world of unlimited competition, unlimited opportunity. And I actually believe despite all the AI scary, we're all going to be sitting on a bench, smoking weed, drinking beer, because robots are going to be doing everything.
[00:08:10] And I actually think that's nonsense are we actually can not have enough people to do all the work. I think the reverse is going to happen is what we hear there all the time is universal. Basic income. Everyone needs $2,000 a month and we sit around smoking weed. I don't believe for a minute, cause there's so many support services around these companies that need to be run by people.
[00:08:31] I, I think the scale of the opportunity now is only really hit me since I've realized that money itself is under a tank from competitors. So if money itself is under attack, And we're going to have many monies. Yeah. We ha we're walking into unlimited opportunity and you've got to make decisions in real time.
[00:08:55] I think. Wow. Only very rare people are going to be able to handle this as a board member, as a founder, as a chief executive. So these are the it's a long answer to your question. These are my witch rings. These are my musings that go on in my head as I do my daily walk. Before I sit down and absorb the machines.
[00:09:15] Sorry about that.
[00:09:17] Chris O'Hare: [00:09:17] I'm glad we're recording this. There's a lot in there to unpack. There's a lot of information. And very much, I think you've just made me realize how much of a futurist you are and how the always predicting in a very much like me. I'm always looking what's next. What's the thing that's going to radicalize our world.
[00:09:38] Do we see it today?
[00:09:39] Thomas Power: [00:09:39] I think you've got to remember Chris for someone like me. I'm now 57. And I've been online since I was 25. It's all I've been plugged in for 32 years. So I'm effectively a digital artifact. I'm like a digital historian. I remember the 32 years. I know life of line. No, no computers, no internet, no, no television, just radio.
[00:10:15] I remember all that. And then this world of being online or being connected, and I don't think it's so much that I'm a futurist. I don't have your skills, your technical skills, your CTO skills. I don't have those skills. What I have is powerful observational skills. Because my deep love is history. I started religious history.
[00:10:42] That's my deep knowledge area of European religious history, middle East and America. I look at technology companies as religious. Okay. When I look at a Google or a Facebook or a Twitter, I. I see, is that Calvinism is that lovingly ism is that Catholicism is that Protestantism? Is that SUNY? Is that a Muslim?
[00:11:09] So I look up, I look at the companies like I look at religions and then I look at the leader of that company as like the leader of that religion. Like we have Jesus Christ for Catholicism, or we have Muhammad for a Muslim. And so try and consider the arrangement of the company as a religious shift because the technology itself is a specious.
[00:11:37] And I don't think people realize that the, what we call the computer, the mobile phone, the tablet that the keyboard, the laptop, these devices we have around us. All of these devices are with me now. They're coming inside us and they're just going to come inside us as a city, as a single chip.
[00:11:56] On the internet and that's the singularity and Ray Kurzweil who wrote the singularity is near and Ray talks about the merger of man and machine in 2045. He wrote the forward to my second book in 1999. I had no idea of the scale of his vision. And so the coming together of men and machine with these devices, It gives the perception of being a futurist, but actually it's really just me absorbing myself into the machines and the machines absorbing themselves into me.
[00:12:31] It's like a biological shift from being online for 30 years because my kids are 28 and 26 and 23. They. They only know this world. They don't know a world of offline. Have no machines have no televisions of no video recorders of just a radio. We just had a radio and the newspaper, anything else?
[00:12:59] The whole thing intrigues me because I like to have one foot in the past and I like to have one foot in the future. And so I don't really have anything in the present. I don't have any feet left. And so living in the present is a real challenge. And the way I challenge myself is to sit on boards as an independent director to say, okay you've been online for 30 years.
[00:13:28]All that you've sat on a dozen boards, all that, but now trying to deal with this problem with this organization now in real time and listen to everybody. And try and be an independent objective voice with no bias. And Chris, it's so hard to have no bias, so difficult to have no bias because we have bias.
[00:13:54]We've just seen it in the last 48 hours in terms of family and what's going on in California. I'm sure the listeners will know what that's all about, but it's very hard to have no bias. And that is that's my that's deep, innate in me when I listen to issues with the children and their businesses or the pit members and their businesses, or my friends with their business or domestic issues.
[00:14:20] I just sit and listen thinking, just listen, you might not need to speak because I think. We're moving. We're moving into an environment now really shown up to be real by clubhouse where listening itself is a surface. So when I think about Clubhouse, I call that less is not. SAS is listening as a service.
[00:14:51] It's a listening platform. It's more than radio because radio is just the sound you can't interact with the radio unless you phone it. But in listening to the service, your list, you've got a live audience listening to a radio show, like a theater it's like theater. You have the stage and you have people watching clapping, but they can't contribute.
[00:15:19] Cause they don't know the words. And so I'm very intrigued that after 20 years of social media broadcasting noise to us, here's this noise. Let me give you this image of this video, these words, these tweets, these blogs, this I think, Oh, the world's saying I'm sick of all of that. Let's just do listening to one another.
[00:15:40] Now that on our phone. Or listen in small intimate groups to one, another 20 people, 30 people or 50 people. I know there's giant rooms, but to me, there's the marketing rooms. Let's listen in small intimate groups to want another thing. Oh my God, we've gone all the way back to sitting around the campfire, listening to stories and pub house is a story platform primarily about listening and you queue up.
[00:16:09] In the reset room feature. You queue up to ask your question. Hello, Mr. O'Hare. Can I ask my question, please? Can I make my comment please? And so I think as mankind is moving forward, but it's reaching back and it's moves forward and it reaches back and it moves forward and reaches back. But now we are one generation away.
[00:16:31] It's 2021 where one generational waste. That's less than 30 years away from man and machine becoming one. My children's children will still be human. My children's children will be machine-based as humans.
[00:16:53]Chris O'Hare: [00:16:53] Wow. What a statement and something that I completely believe. I think this is a time of unprecedented change and it's only accelerating.
[00:17:06] And the fact that you said, and the fact that you said how people will not be out of a job, there'll be more jobs will be more to do. Is something else I've been hammering on to people about automation? Essentially that's what we're doing. That's what I do on a daily basis. I help businesses automate and I make them realize the vision of what it is that they can implement to move forwards.
[00:17:36] And that's hard
[00:17:38] Thomas Power: [00:17:38] I think the association of automation, which I believe in, I think every part of a business should be automated if it can be, but I don't think automation means re means redundancy and universal basic income. I just think it means taking away trivia that machines can do a hundred percent, but people see automation as unemployment.
[00:17:59] Chris O'Hare: [00:17:59] Yeah, I think, yeah, that's an education piece though. Isn't it? That's helping the businesses understand helping the people get out the and. Educate them on the fact that they can use machines to benefit them and the role, and actually they can do things that they would, they want to do rather than the things that they're not as excited to do that the basic administrative tasks.
[00:18:24] So I think thats really key,
[00:18:26] yes, but
[00:18:27] Thomas Power: [00:18:27] the education thing is it's difficult because when you think about people talk about the 1%. And they refer, they saw Jeff Bezos to kneel on Musk as the 1%. And I think these people are not doing their research properly. 1% of eight, seven and a half billion people is 75 million people.
[00:18:55] 75 million people are making more than $50,000 a year. You and I fall into that category. That means 7.495 billion people are making less than a thousand dollars a month. And it's very hard to educate at scale when people are just surviving. And so you've got a world where 99% of the population are just surviving and they're being pressured to reduce their waste, reduce their carbon footprint, be more efficient become a vegan.
[00:19:45] Don't eat any meat. Don't travel and they're trying to survive. And then you've got this 1%.
[00:19:56] So I want to fly to Mars merge with the machines, build a spaceship that goes at the speed of light and find another planet. It's very imbalanced. It's very very out of kilter.
[00:20:18] Chris O'Hare: [00:20:18] It's polarizing. No it's very polarizing. And in terms of the views, but not necessarily human's fault because they have this bubble that's there of experience some, they only know what they know because that's what they deal with on a daily basis and something that's really important.
[00:20:37] And I still think education for me. I think education is one of my big challenges in this world. I think everything can be taught. Everyone can change. If you can get over the fact that, they have the Maslow's hierarchy of needs so once you get past that point, everything else is is I think education.
[00:20:59]But I think we can have a whole podcast on this cause I could talk to the cows, come home when it comes to this pit, but let's move on to the topic because you're an expert. So let's find out let's help our listeners understand more about the topic in terms of what it is that you do. So give us an, a an understanding of your business and kind of what you do in that business.
[00:21:24] Thomas Power: [00:21:24] Okay. So I do a number of different things. One thing that I do is I sit on boards, public boards, and private boards as an independent director, as an independent objective voice. Representing the shareholders who have invested in that idea and supporting the founders, chief executives, the people who run that particular company, the executive directors as they're called, as opposed to the independent directors and in public listed companies, you typically have four.
[00:21:59] Independent directors for three executive directors. So the independence can always vote out the executives. If they need to fire them, replace them, bring in new talent, merge, sell whatever the independent directors have control of the board. They might not be the major shareholders, but they representing the shareholders, which are typically pension funds or big investment funds or hedge funds, but basically funds.
[00:22:27] So that's one thing I do. And I've done that since for the last 20 years, more than 20 years, actually 20, yeah, 22 years. The other thing I do is I build with my wife, I'd build a little build communities, but specifically I'm building where right now we're building a community of a hundred experts in a hundred niches worldwide called BIP100club.
[00:22:50] And we launched that last September. And so far, we've managed to interview 300 supposedly experts, and we've managed to choose 38 of those interviews to be part of that group of a hundred. And so that's the second thing I did. So the third thing I do is I write books and speak at conferences and I've written eight different books.
[00:23:20] Since 1998. So how long ago is that? 20, 22 years ago. And I've spoken at about 2000 conferences worldwide. So those are some of the things that I do. Busy guy. I can't act as a mentor to in the background to support people. I really like I have, I've been a mentor to Jay Shetty since 2013. And I've watched a young man come from nothing to a global superstar, a very talented young man who he gives me a lot of credit for his success.
[00:24:05] But say to him is all I did was show you the map because I've already walked through those towns and cities. You're about to visit. And having been somebody famous on the internet in my thirties, it's very easy to know the path and the route. If you've already walked it, you can show that map to somebody else.
[00:24:30] So I just show Jay that map back in 2014 and then supported him each day or each week on WhatsApp. And I continue to chat with him pretty much. Yeah. Every single week for the last few years. And then I provide the same kind of support again, in the background to my three children there. Two are now embarking on their journey of being entrepreneurs.
[00:24:58] Like you have of coming up with an idea and building an idea, and I encourage all you young entrepreneurs like I have with Jay and my children to really believe in your own ideas. Don't let people throw you off what you think is right. Because if you think something is right and you believe in your idea and you think your idea hasn't been done yet, it's probably time for that idea.
[00:25:29] Chris O'Hare: [00:25:29] That's pretty impactful in terms of. When I was in my twenties, I definitely had a lot of naysayers. There was a lot of people who said, that's not going to work. That's already been done. You're not, you've not got the experience to run a business like that. And yeah, a lot of it did dissuade me from doing certain things and I went down a path of.
[00:25:54] Standardized work model, offering my time as a service. And if I, believed in my vision a bit more, maybe if I had a mentor I could have all the correct mentor. Maybe I would have stayed my course and path because you're so impressionable in your twenties because there's very.
[00:26:16] You've not experienced life, right? You've not had the bumps and the the pains on your travels as you're going through your younger life and therefore you haven't learnt the lessons. So I think that's a massive thing for me. And that's what I try to do with people that I meet now is I try and give them impart in embark, impart my knowledge in terms of.
[00:26:38]I've experienced and then try and let them come up with their own conclusions rather than give them conclusions so that they feel like they've
[00:26:46]Thomas Power: [00:26:46] Yes. You're doing the right thing there. Chris. That's the right approach sitting is when you're embarking on your entrepreneurial journey in your twenties, you're effectively making a decision to walk across the Antarctic and you're going to get very bad days.
[00:27:04] Bad weeks, bad months. And you're going to get some sunny days and you're going to get a break in the ice. And you also could fall through the ice, but being an entrepreneur is literally like walking the Antarctic it's brutal. And the only benefit you can provide as a mentor is to say what I've already walked it, but the journey, the path that you take will be different to mine, but I have already walked it.
[00:27:33] So I can show you my map. The route you take will be different to mine, but I can show you my map and I can warn you of the hazards. And that's really the role of a mentor to show you the map. But what I meant or can't do is say what you need to do is. What you need to do is you need to have a bigger slide, better boots, better, check it, a bigger hat, thicker clubs.
[00:28:04] I mentor can't say any of that because the person is on the journey effectively on their own. The mentor is only sitting on their shoulder and occasionally putting a map round in front of their face and saying, consider. Consider these hazards ahead. Consider these opportunities all. Look, here's an opportunity to eat meat.
[00:28:32] You can take on some food that could be capital. Here's a break in the ice. Here's a time to rest and take on some sun and some warmth. Here's a time to wrap up and withstand the wind down the cuff. That's why I like the first Gretchen that Adrian business is hard and you've got to keep going.
[00:28:52]I do think business is like walking the Antarctic. And if you listen to the stories that Jay tells me of the last seven years, he confirms that he reaffirms that it's been really hard to do what he's done. Really hard. And he's one of the very, very few people who've literally done everything I've said, consider all these things and now he goes, and he does them.
[00:29:23] And I just, I'm just in awe my three children are in or, but at the same time by him being so good at doing his thing. He inspires me and that inspires them and knowledge must be passed through. I had great mentors like Alan sugar. You find me in Alan sugar's book. I had Peter Allen. I had Mike Rayburn.
[00:29:47] I had Marcus Hodgkinson. I had fantastic mentors in my career and I have a juicy to them to thank them. By serving the ones behind me. And if you do receive mentoring Rodney Cox at symbiotic computer systems, amazing those mentors that gave to me. Oh, you are duty bound in your 40, 50, 60 years. However long you get to pass on to the next generation like you, Chris or GA you and Joe.
[00:30:25] I think you're 32. I think Jay's 33 and my children. And then I expect you and Pat lines and other ones, side arm edits of Autex. I expect them to pass on to those behind them when they get into their fifties. And when I crossed 57 years ago, I always said, when I reached 50, my job then is to guide those behind because I had all those mentors.
[00:30:55] I had half a dozen fantastic mentors. And if they were there for me, my job is to be there for those behind me. People like you. J my children. And I receive hundreds of messages each day on WhatsApp. People reaching out for help or support or connections or introductions or capital or whatever business plan templates.
[00:31:18]I do get a lot of messages asking for support. I give as much support as I have the time available,
[00:31:26] Chris O'Hare: [00:31:26] very on a rural view. And I really like that, that you've had mentors. And you're imparting their wisdom as well as yours combined compound that fact, and then pass it down again. And I asked, that's a nice image of somebody
[00:31:42]Thomas Power: [00:31:42] that is that to me, that is your duty in the human race.
[00:31:47] You received knowledge, you talked about education, very wisely. You talked about education. We receive a lot of knowledge from our teachers, from our parents, from our peers, from my mentors. We rolled it all up in a ball. We absorb it. We go through our 40, 50, 60 years and then we have to pass it on like a Baton.
[00:32:10] So those, because the knowledge must be passed on because the world is getting so complicated. So fast that even if you show someone a map, The hazards that are ahead, are missing from the nap. Cause the maps old it's all very well. Me showing J my map, but my maps 30 years old, what Jay wants is a new map, but the new map is being written by him.
[00:32:45] I can only show him an old map. That's got some of the roads on, but he's got look at my old map thing. I'll go and I'll take a bit of your map. And then I've got to write my map. And then I pass that on to the next, after him.
[00:33:01] That is, that to me is being a human giving as much contribution to the other humans, as you can. Because the foreigners gave to you and then passing that through the generations because the road ahead, the journey ahead. And when we become one with the machines, we've been
[00:33:22] what's the right word where you're over, what was the merge tech? I would say blanket. Not so much blinkered. We've been titillated I think by this world of AI and virtual reality and the future and Mars and spaceships and escaping this planet. Cause we're gonna. W or either going to burn or drown or freeze, this stuff that Gretta thunbergii comes out with, which I don't think is helpful, but I understand why she does it.
[00:33:57]I do think the human race will make it through, yes, we may lose or not, but we are. In this next 30 years, we are upgrading the human race to machine levels. This is not just having bigger muscles or bigger six packs, or being able to run as fast as, Ooh, same boat. We're upgrading a human race, almost like we're having a software update and we're all gonna have it in the next 30 years.
[00:34:28] And some won't make it and some will to prepare to, to become an intergalactic species.
[00:34:36] Chris O'Hare: [00:34:36] I'd love to understand what drives you as an entrepreneur. What's that thing that gets you out of bed in the morning? Because you definitely have this expanse of thought that, but it's anime you have on a daily basis, which is amazing and almost terrifying at the same time, because you can see all the problems, but you can also see other solutions and there's not enough of you to go out and.
[00:35:00] Affect the path of humanity. You can only just observe almost that's what it feels like. So I'd love to know what drives you as an entrepreneur and what gets you out of bed in the morning?
[00:35:13]Thomas Power: [00:35:13] Obviously, I love learning and I love reading. I love studying, I'd probably read five or 10,000 tweets every day, just for the hell of it.
[00:35:23] I love that. I do love connecting people to the right people. I've thought I've always been very fascinated by people coming out to me and people saying, Oh, Thomas, you seem to know everyone. Can you connect me to the right people? And I've always wondered what they actually meant with this statement.
[00:35:42] Thomas, you seem to know everyone. That's impossible. Can you connect me to the right people? I wonder who they mean. Because I don't know what the definition is of the right people is that you, is that me is that penny who, who is that? And so I get my joy from community building. I get my joy from teaching.
[00:36:07]I kept matured from observing, from connecting. I get my joy from people finding the thing that they are looking for. If that's a piece of information, a template, a person, a book, a tweets, a connection, an idea. I think what motivates me, Chris is helping that person find that the thing that they are looking for and w penny and I have also connected a lot of people who subsequently got married and had children.
[00:36:42] So yeah. So we've done that probably, I don't know, half a dozen times. And so I just my joy is when people find the thing they're looking for and they found it through one of my maps or one of my signposts.
[00:37:01] Chris O'Hare: [00:37:01] You need to create a website with all your maps on.
[00:37:08] Thomas Power: [00:37:08] Yeah, I think the maps are in my head though.
[00:37:12] Chris O'Hare: [00:37:12] So you can scale, you become singularity. Let's put you on the internet.
[00:37:19]Thomas Power: [00:37:19] I am prepared in when the time comes to to have the chip embedded inside me. Okay.
[00:37:25] Chris O'Hare: [00:37:25] Me too. Me too. A hundred percent. Can't wait.
[00:37:29]Thomas Power: [00:37:29] The only thing I work harder is I don't touch technology at the weekend. No phone, no computers, no internet.
[00:37:38]Obviously the car that I drive is full of technology, but other than steering it, and I don't really, it's so hard to use the car I've got with all this technology in it. I just drive it. But really I steer clear from technology for two days a week. So that I can have time to ruminate and think and listen to my family and friends and absorb all the other stuff outside of the machines.
[00:38:07] And when we become one with the machines in the next 30 years, I worry that I won't be allowed to have that time anymore, because unless you can press the computer off, turn it off, come offline, click. Click, however it works, where we never be able to escape the matrix because humans need a rumination time.
[00:38:33] We need thinking time. We need fun time. We need sports time, exercise time, shouting time, singing time, go to a concert time. Our brains need all these things to refresh. And technology is so addictive. It doesn't allow for refresh. And I spoke to loads of people. Who've got addicted to clubhouse or being on it for 60 hours in a week.
[00:39:01] And I think, okay you've obviously received a lot of information in that time and that's not healthy. You couldn't make love for 60 hours a week. You couldn't play tennis for 60 hours a week. You couldn't eat food for 60 hours a week. You can play football for 60 hours a week is not healthy. And I worry about the addictive nature of of technology.
[00:39:24] Chris O'Hare: [00:39:24] Oh, a hundred percent. I'm very passionate about this subject. This is something. The likes of Facebook has really shown a light on in terms of what it is that they've built this, the fact that people are addicted, that they're getting dopamine hits every time they have a new notification.
[00:39:43] I was listening to one of the the guys who. Invented this level of addiction in Facebook and he was the head of growth hacks basically was his name. It was his job title. And he's even shocked by the fact of what he's done across the whole industry, because essentially he was the architect of the whole tech industry adopting this method of, pull down to refresh that is such an addictive behavior and clubhouse that.
[00:40:12] No pull to refresh and clubhouse has a lot of things in there. That's very addictive. But what's that doing to our youth, right? What's that doing to our young generation? When they're growing up with these dopamine hits from technology in their formative years, luckily I grew up.
[00:40:31] Just to the age of technology becoming ubiquitous, but it became, but it was still very rudimentary and therefore I could have that time away from technology. Whereas now it's everywhere, but luckily I've formed the correct dopamine paths or the Crip behaviors. And don't get me wrong. I still get addicted.
[00:40:51]I turn off all the notifications on my phone for a reason. But what's that doing? To our young generation, in terms of the health, that mental health, while it's not doing go home
[00:41:05] Thomas Power: [00:41:05] in terms of what it's doing that, remember, this is the last generation of humans.
[00:41:13] That's a statement. This is the last generation, this next 30 years. This is the last generation of humans, 2050.
[00:41:23] Chris O'Hare: [00:41:23] So what's the term after cyborgs?
[00:41:30]Thomas Power: [00:41:30] They're, machine-based humans. You can call them cyborgs. You can call them Androids. You no doubt. There will be a label, but I like to think we'll consider them upgraded humans or improved humans or better humans. But they will be different. And so this, the last generation of humans born between now and 2050, the ones you described, who've got lots of issues.
[00:42:04]As you described quite rightly mental health issues, the mental health issues are being caused by the technology and the technology industry has not. Taken responsibility for that issue, because if the technology industry is responsible for mental health issues, which I believe it is, it should be taxed like alcohol and tobacco chicken attacks.
[00:42:31] Chris O'Hare: [00:42:31] That's a new one. That's coming out. Tax,
[00:42:35] Thomas Power: [00:42:35] sugar tax, alcohol tax, tobacco taxs, recreational drug tax, whether it's sugar, whether it's alcohol, whether it's nicotine, whether it's cannabis, the same issue has been caused by technology and the technology industry. Hasn't stepped up to the plate yet to take on that responsibility of accepting the fact they invented smoking.
[00:43:00]And technology is then is the new smoking. The smartphone is the cigarette. And the dopamine is inside the smartphone and all the notifications that you quite rightly described. But because this is the last generation of humans that are being consumed, they're being dare I say, their photo, the photo for the machines.
[00:43:26] And the machines are eating this last generation of humans before they become one with the machines, because the humans are going to fight back and then merge. And we're beginning to see the fight back of the humans, right now we're focused on climate and food and meat and racism or color.
[00:43:50] Re relatively speaking, we're focused on things that are not as significant as the change we're going to see. I know climate is the, we're all going to burn down and fall freeze by 2030. But I think that's nonsense. Obviously the issue is going to be improved, but the breakthrough we'll see in the 2030s is we're going to be able to create fusion, which is a B.
[00:44:17] One one drop of fuel to power a car for a year, one drop of fuel to Paris city for a year or a home we're going to achieve fusion in the 2030s. We're going to retreat achieve man and machine as one in the 2040s and 2050s. We're then going to be focused on, can we build a machine at the speed of light to go to another galaxy and bear in mind how fast that is?
[00:44:42] That's 676 million miles an hour. That's a fast it is and currently we can do 20,000 miles an hour. So we're talking about performance improvements of more than a hundred thousand times in the generation from 2050 to 2100, it's not possible to make a performance improvement of a hundred thousand times in 50 years without another input.
[00:45:10] And that input is the arrival of the chip inside the human. In much as the same way, the creation, this belief, God was the chip that converted the ape into the human and many arguments about apes to humans and a God intervention to create a human from an ape. Effectively, we're having, we're going to have that intervention again.
[00:45:36] With the singularity. That's like our God moment for a second time where we then become men and machine. But this mental health issue. Created by many things, climate race technology, sadly, a lot of this generation are a fodder for the machines. The machines are eating these, this generation of humans.
[00:45:58] And that is actually quite sad because this is the last generation of pure humans this next 30 years.
[00:46:05]Chris O'Hare: [00:46:05] They found that. Young children, suicide rates have gone up since the advent of Facebook and social media. They've also found that romantic or just sex in general has dropped because the self-esteem is not Distinguishable between social media and real life.
[00:46:23] And therefore they don't feel good about themselves. Th this is, these are crazy things, and that's creating massive divides in America. If you've, if anyone's ever watched the the Netflix documentary, social dilemma really scary. Almost apocalyptic in the approach of what they're.
[00:46:40] Theyre chiming to, or believe or predicting so happen. And what's the answer. There is none because these machines I'm going to have free reign on our informations in some respect because we almost need it. And there's no ability to regulate that at the moment, because if you regulate that you almost regulate innovation and how do you regulate novelness in terms of creating new ideas? If you don't give it access to the things that it needs to create, the next thing
[00:47:14] Thomas Power: [00:47:14] but well, Im confident humans will be we'll do that.
[00:47:18] Chris O'Hare: [00:47:18] I think it will be time and a lot of. Sacrifices or, and that's what it feels like.
[00:47:25] Like you said, we are fodder for the machine, but it almost feels sacrificial. Coming back to the analogy of using religion of these tech companies. I, you know what? I haven't had a statement that's more impactful in the past year for me than that statement because I called them cults.
[00:47:45]But I think religion, religious sects, I think that is. Way more powerful in terms of looking at how religion works and then applying that model with when it comes to a tech company. Thank you for that. Thank you for blowing my mind. But okay. I will,
[00:48:02] Thomas Power: [00:48:02] when you see these companies and go to the events I've met Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer.
[00:48:06] I've been to these giant Microsoft events. Salesforce events with any hot, when you go to these events these are rock concerts. Yeah. There's a rock concert events about software. We had rock concerts like this in the 1970s, which were about God. And the only thing we've swapped is the person on the stage is the same.
[00:48:30] We still see them as a superstar or Christ. We just swapped God for technology. That's all. But the religious behavior is exactly the same.
[00:48:45] Chris O'Hare: [00:48:45] Would you say atheism has Brea bread, a different type of God? Like we are more science-based
[00:48:57] Thomas Power: [00:48:57] I think atheism is just another God, because it's the belief that there isn't a God, which is another belief.
[00:49:05]It's atheism. It's just another religion because it's believing there isn't a God religion.
[00:49:13] Chris O'Hare: [00:49:13] So it's like a framework, essentially. So religion is almost a framework of ideals.
[00:49:21] Thomas Power: [00:49:21] Yes. It doesn't have to be anything there. There just has to be a belief that there might be something there. And what's fascinating with atheism is you actually go and you believe that there's nothing there.
[00:49:33]Then if you believe that there's nothing there, that's still an idea that there's something there that there's nothing there. And so atheism Richard Dawkins. Yeah. I've read all that material. I sat, I've listened to all his podcasts and I think it was all he's done is invented another religion. Of course he has.
[00:49:54] Course he has the difference with things like Facebook with Mark Zuckerberg is like an emperor he's above a president. He's above a prime minister. He's like an emperor, with the Australian situation with the media, he said, he said, turn off Facebook in Australia. Let's just turn it off.
[00:50:17]That's the behavior of an emperor. And don't think he did his reputation, a lot of good doing that. He just showed his power. He showed that he was more powerful than everyone in Australia, and I don't think it was a very good move for his reputation.
[00:50:39]Chris O'Hare: [00:50:39] Facebook in general is No called great reputation as it is, but there's nowhere else to go, right?
[00:50:44] Unless you have the likes of clubhouse, which is breeding a new type of social media and people are loving it.
[00:50:54] Thomas Power: [00:50:54] Yes. Because it's listening based because primarily whether you look at Facebook or YouTube or Twitter or Instagram, it's broadcast based. You log on and to receive the information with clubhouse you log on and you listen the risk, the receiving the broadcast receiving piece is the listening is the audio.
[00:51:24] But do you think there's also, sorry, go on. Finish your point because humans if you're out in the wild as a human, particularly at night, Your ears are very alert to risk at every crunch, every sound, every animal, every hoot every how. You're very alert to that. You're very alert to where you're walking, very alert to where you're going towards very alert to light.
[00:51:54] And you're very alert to sound. And you can hear something before you see it. The value of clubhouse is that you can hear it. Because you can't see it. And it's let people realize that we're audio-based animals first, not eye-based animals first, where we listen first. And then we see generally you hear, then you see sometimes you see, and then you hear, but Jen we're audio based and clubhouse is again, it's a return back to our basic innate nature is to listen first.
[00:52:31] And then run or attack,
[00:52:35]Chris O'Hare: [00:52:35] I guess it's not, it's easier to hear in terms of the, you can multitask and listen was, and this is what I was going to come to earlier was the fact that you could do other things at the same time as absorbing clubhouse means that the level of boredom is. Not necessarily the, because you can do exercise, you can drive a car, you can do all these other things.
[00:53:04] And I think that's really powerful. And actually, this is why I love the medium of podcasts, poke us and enable us to do that, to distinguish a topic that I'm particularly interested in at that point in time. And then still go about my day, doing other things and absorbing that medium. And I think that's.
[00:53:26] It's almost like going back, like you said, to the point of, radio and that's where we had a, that was the first medium that we really truly had in this country. That we, we were broadcasted to when you first got a radio. What was it? What was the experience between radio and TV?
[00:53:51] Like what was the difference in your consumption? How are you going about your day differently? Did you sit down and,
[00:53:59]Thomas Power: [00:53:59] We got our first TV in 1974. I was 10 years old. And so I had seen TVs in. Obviously shops that rented TVs, radio rentals, re diffusion, those going back a long time. But when we had a TV in the house, it was a hell of a shock.
[00:54:25] It was a hell of a shock to see people on a screen in your house. It was a hell of a shock. And to hear them speaking and walking around. Wow. And remember you only had two channels. You only have a BBC and ITV, so it ended up BBC too back then. So you had two channels. So you basically, it was the news or the $6 million man that was about it.
[00:55:01] But the leap from radio was a lighthearted information or information music, basically radio four and music, but a lighthearted background supportive. General comfort when television arrived, it was focus. Oh my God. Look at this. I was literally going to say that. And so the joy of clubhouse is bringing back that comfort background of radio, but with the added benefit of.
[00:55:36] You and I you're asking me these questions. I'm giving you some answers, but we don't know what other people are thinking. If you had your clubhouse switch and you switched on your clubhouse button and the 30 other people were listening to you and me 29 of those 30 people might have a question that you and I haven't considered might have an idea that we haven't considered might want to ask something that we haven't considered might want to challenge what you're saying or what I'm saying.
[00:56:02] And that is, that's a breakthrough. To have a live interactive radio show, but the
[00:56:16] the counter to that is, Oh my God. It's actually just a conference call on the telephone. My God, we were doing that 30 years ago. Yeah, we could do that in the late 1980s. You could sit around a call, a phone, obviously you couldn't see anyone, but you can sit around a phone in the late 1980s and listen to a group.
[00:56:36] Group call. And you listened and you stared a gray box in the middle of a table. There'd be a dozen of you sitting around the table. There'll be a dozen at their end. And that would be two boards having a meeting. You'd listen to them. They'd listen to you. You'd be there for a few hours. Then you'd turn off the gray box in the middle of that was an audio conference call.
[00:56:57] That's what we have with. Clubhouse. So the actual idea is over 30 years old.
[00:57:07] Chris O'Hare: [00:57:07] Okay. Love to get your opinion on something actually. Cause the pandemic is really shot up the popularity of VoIP and zoom and video calls. And I'm missing phone calls. Like I miss a good old fashioned phone call and it's the same thing.
[00:57:24] Isn't it? It's exactly the same thing.
[00:57:27] Thomas Power: [00:57:27] Yes, because you can hear a human through their voice sound that you can't hear from a video screen. You can hear intimacy, you can hear emotion. You can't hear that on a video. Call. You can't hear it. If you're being intimate with a partner of whatever sexual perspiration, but if you're being intimate, It's much easier to be intimate through a telephone than it is through a video, much easier.
[00:58:04] And you can really express yourself through your voice, into the ear far more intimately than you can. On a video screen. Our ears are more powerful than our eyes.
[00:58:18]Chris O'Hare: [00:58:18] Is it because we are thinking about the way we look our body language. So with things we're doing, and therefore we're not fully engaged, we're not fully focused on what, listening on what they're doing and what they're saying and listening and responding and in the way that you normally would.
[00:58:36] Thomas Power: [00:58:36] I think you're right. It's partly that, but it's partly the root of our core. Survival is audio based.
[00:58:44]Chris O'Hare: [00:58:44] This is powerful. This is really powerful in terms of everything we're going to be doing, going forwards.
[00:58:50] Thomas Power: [00:58:50] As I say if I took away your sight and you had your ears, you could survive pretty well. If I took away your ears, but you had your sight, you would struggle.
[00:59:11] Chris O'Hare: [00:59:11] I'd love you to elaborate on that, because I would have said that I, if I had the choice, God forbid, I hope I never have that choice. But if I had the choice, I would have picked my eyes because I felt like I could do more because I could type, and I could con I could create
[00:59:28] Thomas Power: [00:59:28] well on your show. Can I.
[00:59:31] Suggest that you interview somebody who is blind and somebody who is deaf. And so you can compare
[00:59:43] while you can, there is a way for you to do that.
[00:59:47] Chris O'Hare: [00:59:47] Okay. I'll be, I'm going to have to try this a hundred percent just to see the response, but usually. There's no two way communication, I would say. Or if there is, there's a massive barrier though, right? So maybe it's that interconnectivity of human nature to need to converse.
[01:00:12] Thomas Power: [01:00:12] But if you think about this experience we're having now with your podcast, I'm staring into a zoom screen, your recording onto a podcast. You can hear me if I switch off my camera. And you can't see me.
[01:00:32] Chris O'Hare: [01:00:32] Oh, you're gone.
[01:00:34]Thomas Power: [01:00:34] Doesn't make a great deal of difference. No, but if you couldn't hear me, it makes a massive difference.
[01:00:42] Whether you could see me.
[01:00:45]Chris O'Hare: [01:00:45] Yeah. I agree. I see what you mean. I can see the power that you're trying to convey in terms of the importance of audio.
[01:00:54] Thomas Power: [01:00:54] And I think that the reason you, when you mentioned COVID is because we've been locked at home in this sort of ground Groundhog world of repeat, zoom teams, WhatsApp, walk, eat, zoom teams, WhatsApp, sleep.
[01:01:13] The a lot of people that would become very lonely if they don't have a partner or someone to talk to. And I think clubhouse is timing has benefited from the loneliness of COVID and the locked down. Oh, look I don't want to join us. I tell him to join his zoom of a hundred people, but I'm happy to join a room of a hundred people in this lesson.
[01:01:39] This is nice, comfortable listening. And Oh, and I can interact with this listening as well. I can ask you a question. Oh, I can go on stage and ask a question. Oh my God. I can host my own room
[01:01:53] for people in lockdown worldwide. And they've had 10 million downloads. Let's assume 1% of hyperactive. You put a hundred thousand people in there. Who are fully engaged, probably on that platform all the time. If I had the a hundred thousand by 24 hours and you can see, Oh, blimey, there's a few thousand people there every hour.
[01:02:19] I can talk to a few thousand people every hour. Those few thousand people, every are divided into a hundred different rooms. Oh, blimey. Oh, this is going to be, it's going to be 30 to a hundred people in every room, every hour, which is what's happened. Covering every nation, every geography, every topic, the prayer group, the singing group, the dancing group, the yoga group, the blockchain group, the NFT group is they're all there in those clubs, in those rooms.
[01:02:48] And I think it's a joy for row Han and Paul that they timed this launched during lockdown because their success is because of locked down and. Having Mark Andreessen funding, the company inviting big Elon Musk. He's gone to interview and say, Oh, we, can you come and do an interview on clubhouse? What's clubhouse, just come on, click this link and talk and then tweet join clubhouse thing.
[01:03:16] Oh, well, job done up joke, tone.
[01:03:21] Chris O'Hare: [01:03:21] Amazing. I think we've gone on for over an hour now, so that's wrap this podcast up for our listeners so they can gets the own with the day, but let's get some three quick wins from you. So let's talk about if. One of our listeners wanted to go away and start thinking about what's coming in the future to be disruptive or to think about how it could affect them and their business.
[01:03:49] What three things would you say they need to look at? How would they take this knowledge or prediction and then apply that to their business? What are the things they need to do?
[01:04:05] Thomas Power: [01:04:05] Okay. The first thing is to understand the pattern shapes, trends, or memes that are impacting that industry. And there are plenty of books or documents or PDFs or research reports but look at all the things that are hitting that industry, every pattern, every shape, every trend, every meme, everything that's going to shock that industry.
[01:04:27] Make sure you understand all the meteorites or miss styles that are coming at that industry. That's the first thing really do your market analysis, your market research. And then hidden in the analysis, you'll find the opportunities for that industry to renew itself, to be rebuilt, reshaped, reorganized, refinanced, whatever it might be.
[01:04:49] So I would say study the market that you're in or the threats to that market. And see as it's reorganized, what the new opportunities are. And then calculate the capital value of those opportunities and then work at how much capital you can raise to support those opportunities. That would be my first win and I'd apply that to any industry.
[01:05:19] I think the most important thing you need having done that is a map of where you're going on a map. Typically requires a team. And so you've either got to recruited the team, hire a team, build a team, or join a pack. That's already a team, like bit, 100. It's like joining a pack. We hunt together as a pack and humans, when they feel unsafe hunting packs like dogs and humans are efficient impacts like dogs.
[01:05:58] Might you see hyenas are able to kill lions because they hunt in packs. Even though there are less efficient animal in terms of scale and bite power. So I would say either, either former team build a team, join a team, or join a community pack where you can access all those resources. So you can then.
[01:06:19] Implement the outcomes that you're aiming for from your analysis and your market research of what's being reorganized in that market, that would be my second win. So it'd be market analysis and then form a team will become part of a team. Number three, then I think it's about capital. You have to tell stories to raise capital.
[01:06:41] And the best storytellers raised the most capital. If we look at Elon Musk, he's the world's greatest. Loss-making billionaire. He's never made a profit in 30 years, yet people continue to throw them out. We got him, we've never seen anyone like him before every other entrepreneur has made a profit. He continues to never make a profit in any business ever.
[01:07:08] Whether it's PayPal, Tesla, rocket ships demands. So raising capital is about telling stories. So surround yourself with great storytellers who can teach you how to raise capital, or you can raise capital with them and then onboard as much capital as you can for your journey across the Antarctic to feed your team because they need a lot of food.
[01:07:36] To cross the Antarctic. And so I would say it would be a market analysis market research team, and then capital. So storytelling to get the capital and the best storytellers raised the most money people always say, Oh my God, how did they raise so much money? How did they get, why did they get 6 million?
[01:07:55] They got 60 million. And I just said, I just say they told a better story. And he would say it can't be down to that. And I say, He is. So make sure you surround yourself with very good storytellers who know how to raise capital. So you have food for your journey across the Antarctic.
[01:08:15] Chris O'Hare: [01:08:15] Fantastic. And in terms of resources for people to learn on how to do this, to how to look at finding patterns, I think that's going to be a theme for this podcast.
[01:08:28] Where can they go to find these kinds of things?
[01:08:31] Thomas Power: [01:08:31] There's a lot of good books. Who's it. Bernard Marr who writes about pattern shapes, trends means there's a loss. There's a lot of great authors who talk about the mega trends. So I it's worth reading all the books related to trends or patterns or shapes or memes.
[01:08:53] For that particular industry, you normally find one or two people in an industry who are exceptionally good at that industry, whether it be technology, pharmaceutical electric cars in the transport sector. So re, re read the read the futurist, all the pattern analyzes of your industry. If people need a template, business plan template, they can email me for that.
[01:09:14] I've got I've got the business plan template that the Silicon Valley venture capitalists use every day. As that templates, that pitch template, I have that. So they can email me for that. I guess if they need other resources that are unique to their industry, they'd probably find those on YouTube.
[01:09:35] Chris O'Hare: [01:09:35] And in terms of our listeners wanting to either reach out to you or look at your content or find out more about what you're teaching, how can they do that? How can they find you?
[01:09:48] Thomas Power: [01:09:48] Okay. The best place to find me is on WhatsApp. My number is published everywhere. Plus four four (7875695012.
[01:09:58] Or they can send me a message on email or LinkedIn or Twitter or Facebook or Instagram or one of those systems. But my preferred is WhatsApp. And they'll find that number published on every platform in the world, on the front page next to my profile,
[01:10:16]Chris O'Hare: [01:10:16] very unique. And there's not a lot of people I've heard use that as a communication platform with the wider public.
[01:10:23] So they tend to keep their phone number, very private. So it'll be interesting to see why a concept. Okay. That's interesting. Okay.
[01:10:36]Thomas Power: [01:10:36] I'm, I'm here for a short time on planet earth. If people, if I were to be dead and people said, Oh, I couldn't get in touch with them. I couldn't find this number. I would be disgusted with myself.
[01:10:48] People couldn't get in touch with you because they couldn't find your number or your email. I think you should be disgusted with yourself. And if you read people's profiles on all these platforms, their profiles are so awful. Those profiles are awful. On LinkedIn, terrible. And there's no way to get in touch with people.
[01:11:07] And I just think we don't understand. And I was still say, I dunno, 700 million profiles on LinkedIn. I'd say 99% of people don't know how to use it properly. And that's just one platform. So I think I'd be disgusted at myself if I got to heaven and somebody said, I really wanted to talk to you now you're here.
[01:11:26] I couldn't find your number when you're on planet earth. And I think, Oh my God, You mentioned going to heaven and bins, and someone's telling you that now I have to be available to everyone all the time. That's ready. That's really amazing. 50, 60, 70 years, maybe 80, if you're lucky and you don't get long, it's not very long.
[01:11:44] No. Spend a third of that in bed asleep.
[01:11:49]Chris O'Hare: [01:11:49] It's getting very philosophical and deep that point. So 30 years in bed, that's a very good point. It's very good point. Thank you for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. And I definitely think there's a few more podcasts in us yet of other topics that we can talk about which I think, to have such a, an interesting mind on this show has been amazing.
[01:12:20] So thank you for coming on the show.
[01:12:22]Thomas Power: [01:12:22] Thank you for advising me on Chris. It's been a pleasure. Real pleasure. Look forward to interviewing you on the clubhouse.
[01:12:27] Chris O'Hare: [01:12:27] Yeah, I can't wait myself.
[01:12:37]If that didn't blow your mind, I don't know what will, and this is what the quick CEO podcast is all about. Exposing you the listener to ideas and topics that you wouldn't ordinarily run into. But what did you think of Thomas' quick wins, quick read number one, understand the patterns, shapes, trends, or memes that is impacting your industry.
[01:12:59] So on the side of what's coming to the shop, the industry in the future, I make the most of the opportunities as a result. Quick, wait, number two, create a map with a pack. Whether you create a team or join a team, you'd need one for your journey. Quickly. Number three, tell stories to raise capital and the best storytellers.
[01:13:21] Raise more capital and you need capital to feed you on your journey. But what was your favorite bit of this show? You could tell me I'm clubhouse because we've created a room for all you quick winners. So make sure you give me a clubhouse follow to know when I'm like, but you can also tell me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tik, TOK, or YouTube, where you can find me with art's head digital.
[01:13:45] I remember the several other podcasts available to listen to which you can find on Apple podcasts. Spotify and YouTube. And what should the, I'll be so grateful if you can subscribe or write a review, but until next time on your quick wizzy signing out.