Josh Wallman: [00:00:00] One bit that I always find that's quite amusing is that if you've, got some sort of defect or you need to take some sort of picture. If you're in a paper-based process, you're filling in the paperwork and whatever. And then you are then, from a company's point of view, they're expecting for a picture to be attached to that.
[00:00:16] And there are so many different, creative ways for somebody to do that. However one, one time, I was basically followed the process of somebody doing this and they'd taking a picture on their smartphone or their personal phone they're then emailing it to their work phone they're waiting later on so that they can go onto their computer.
[00:00:36] Take that image. They'll put it onto their desktop. So far you've got so many copies of exactly the same picture. And then they're trying to stick that picture into the. Copy of the defect report that they've built up then again, because that was in a paper-based process. They're trying to stick it into a word document and nothing's quite lining up, but then they're sending it on as that word document.
[00:00:57] And it's there's suddenly a huge file because it's so many images. So struggling to send it by email because the file size is too big. So all of these little things.
[00:01:16] Chris OHare: [00:01:16] Chris O'Hare your Quick Win CEO. And as a CEO, I'm from businesses founded startups consultant for others and even won awards. But in this show, we'll be talking to entrepreneurs and experts to help you understand key concepts for your business, along with three quick wins that you can take away and apply to your business today.
[00:01:35] And every week, we'll be finding out about the entrepreneur themselves and diving to a different but important topic. And we're learning about. Paperless digital transformation today with Josh Walman co-founder of software company Capja. Now just used to be a digital transformation expert for cannon before branching out on his own with clients such as the Labour party is well versed in helping companies get to grips with their paperless ambitions.
[00:02:03] And in this podcast, we get to learn how your business can go paperless. And the many reasons it can boost the productivity of your workforce. We also get to learn about Josh, a bright entrepreneur with a sales acumen to be jealous off. So here we go. Josh Wallman. Thanks for coming on the show. Josh, firstly, tell me the last thing that you read or watched, or did that left an impression on you?
[00:02:28] It could be a Netflix series, a funny video, a book you read, or a quote that you heard.
[00:02:35] Josh Wallman: [00:02:35] I think the sort of the biggest thing that has made an impression on me has has been this, a YouTube video called the new hustle. And it's about three Australian startup companies that have, I don't know, a lot of the startup world and the sort of community and seeing companies grow.
[00:02:53] You just hear the good stuff you just see, Oh, brilliant. They've just excelled within a month. And all of a sudden they're famous. Whereas this video, the new hustle actually shows the kind of hard graphs that, that people went through to, to get to the point of of making it successful, basically.
[00:03:08]And the three sort of company or three startups where a safety culture that do the I auditor stuff. Vino mofo and the company called Canva. Which have all done very well from yeah. From the individual really. But yeah, it was it was inspiring to watch. It was it was probably a couple of months ago since I watched that, but it's just in the back of my mind.
[00:03:28] I'm ready. And it's just that a lot of companies, you got to go through the hard graft of you getting to the end really, or getting to the goals. And sometimes you feel like you're a little bit on your own, but seeing stuff like that sort of gives you that motivation really.
[00:03:41]Chris OHare: [00:03:41] And was that just a YouTube video? Was it like commissioned as a film or was it just purely a YouTube video? It was actually a film and it's, yeah, it's just commissioned onto on YouTube basically. Yeah, I was surprised because I think I spend a while. If I get all my usual entertainment off of 'em.
[00:04:00] Josh Wallman: [00:04:00] Netflix or Amazon prime or something like that. But yeah, this I heard about it and I thought I'd give it a go. And I was just glued watching it for all the hour, but yeah. And that's very good. Yeah, it's quite surprising. Actually. It's quite a lot of content on YouTube that you can find. It's usually buried though.
[00:04:17]Chris OHare: [00:04:17] You need to get recommended. If you, if it doesn't get recommended, you tend to not be able to find the diamonds that are hidden below the, a sea of rubbish. That's on YouTube. Cause there's a lot of it. Yeah, but I had to stop the other day. They have 1 billion users. 1 billion users on YouTube.
[00:04:36]Josh Wallman: [00:04:36] There's a lot of things for a lot of different people. So I never found it really good for finding anything. So you've got to, you gotta troll for your Reddit threads, the way you've got to, you've got to get recommended by someone who's seen something who's probably been recommended to them previously.
[00:04:53]Chris OHare: [00:04:53] Yeah, that's my tip for YouTube. Don't go onto YouTube trying to find something, cause you'll never find it. No. Exactly. So in your own words, give me an understanding of what it is that you do. What's your business do? What do you do in your business? Very simply we guide businesses to become more efficient.
[00:05:15] Josh Wallman: [00:05:15] And that's that's pretty much our ethos, sons and Dane. So we work and we work with businesses and basically give them a review and we go through what their current state is, where they want to be, what their goals are and basically give recommendations to, to change and be that guide really.
[00:05:36]Chris OHare: [00:05:36] In what sense does that work? How do you do that? So a lot of the times it's because every company got some sort of hopefully some sort of vision or somewhere that they want to be. It's very easy to get complacent and settle where you are. But there's, you have to be, you have to be agile within your own respective environment.
[00:05:55]Josh Wallman: [00:05:55] As soon as you become complacent, that's when it gets a little bit dangerous. There's always going to be competition. And it's from a business perspective when you're Saturday your own and so focused and zoned in to what you're good at. What you're delivering is a product manufacturing, logistics, or whatever it might be as a service.
[00:06:14]It's it's easy just to be in that world and not know about how other. Other aspects are the methods MITRE assist and help your business to become more operationally efficient, basically. And it's it's trying to, I guess it's going in and using the knowledge of where we work with multiple different industries to go into a a business and basically give those little nuggets of advice and support.
[00:06:41]A lot of the things that we do. So other than the sort of. Consultative work that we do well, we offering advice and stuff. We've also got a hand-picked kind of gold standard or. The gold standards of a technology that we believe are the best in those specific sectors. Capturing information working with that information to make it as automated as possible.
[00:07:02]And then delivering that output in some sort of method that's useful for the business. But whereas every business is different. It's it has to be a case by case basis. You might have the exactly the same business within the same industry that you've been working with. However, they've got a different approach.
[00:07:19] They're a little bit unique. They want to do things differently. And and you've got to match that. You've got to work with the businesses that that you're with. So sometimes it might be a case of actually recommending another bit of technology that fits in like a glove to that business, but it might not be necessarily what we're working on.
[00:07:35]Or where we are, but it's it's being that guide and that advisor to help businesses. Okay. And you obviously implement the digital tools for them as well. And give me an understanding of what tools you apply and where so which tools we, we apply. The ones that we've mostly focused on are probably the ones that are.
[00:08:02] I don't know if you could say boring, some people might find them exciting, but they tend to be the they tend to be a lot of the core of the business is the, where businesses have to grow. It could be. It could be a range of anything, but the bits that we focus on are the sort of documentation or the information that needs to be captured and built up around it, whether that's a you're building up a quote or proposal to invoices.
[00:08:26] To delivery notes all these bits of information are, created in, those specific sectors and it's trying to make them as efficient as possible. So the tools are reflective based on how to digitize those specific elements so that the tools that we offer. And we work with our effectively digital copies that's kinda either automator a workflow whether it's processing an invoice, for example, matching it up against a purchase order.
[00:08:55]Or it might be an application for a mobile phone to capture information such as the delivery note or so forth. And then it's where we're. Unique or where we see ourselves as unique within the market is a one adapting and bespoking that particular tool to the business's requirements.
[00:09:15]And number two is actually being agile to the environment such as COVID coming to the light where you might have traditional sort of pod system where you need to capture information for deliveries and so forth. It's it's a case of being. Understanding of the environment, whereas, you can't be passing over a tablet or a mobile phone for somebody else to sign where you know that you might be transmitting some kind of virus.
[00:09:40] No, it makes a lot of sense. So let's move on to what is paperless transformation or digital transformation? What is it to you? Could you give us a definition of that? So I think so obviously the idea of paperless is simply changing from a paper-based process to information flying from a, to B in a digital process or digital format.
[00:10:06]Digital transformation is more of an evolution on that because you might not necessarily be talking about the the paper-based processes, but it might be evolving the digital process that you've built on and making it, even better, even more efficient and so forth. And usually it's some kind of some kind of change management in there.
[00:10:26] So it's not just a single event, but it's a continuous project. And it's also. I think it's quite key that it's actually the mindset as well. I don't think it's just a, Oh, we're just going to change this particular process to a paper based or a digital process, but it's also having that mindset and putting that into the culture and the ethos of the business.
[00:10:49]Chris OHare: [00:10:49] Yeah. For me, paperless is about obviously take getting rid of the paper. That's the key point number one, but also it's about the idea of digital systems, right? Where you can essentially be able to access these systems no matter where you are, but also the fact that. You can access that data no matter where you are as well.
[00:11:10]So for me I think the key part of the sentence here is that digital transformation is an important part of that kind of is paperless digital transformation because it's almost a cultural change as well in terms of where that company is going. And you iterated that very nicely at the beginning and.
[00:11:33] If you told a business to go paperless and that's what your process is. Why should they, what is, what do you think the benefits are? There were so many different benefits and to apply just general benefits to a company or customer or prospect is hard to really pin down. However there, there are so many benefits that come off the back of going into a, sort of a paperless environments.
[00:11:59]Josh Wallman: [00:11:59] One big key thing at the moment is the kind of remote workforce. The ability to access information anywhere, in this day and age, if everything's in a paper-based process and then relying on, mail services and so forth, it's it's, time-consuming, it's slow.
[00:12:15]Maybe there is, a place for it and we've some bits of information, but. I think the biggest thing is accessing that information and being able to access it remotely is, is key this day and age. Every business is different, but there's a, there is an element of if the information is in a digital format rather than a paper-based format then you've got you could just got a lot more freedom and flexibility.
[00:12:39]There's also probably an argument that actually. And again, it depends on what it is, but it might be a little bit more secure in this sort of. COVID era as such there's less less opportunity to transmit the virus if you're, if you've got technology to hand, basically. It's always the idea or what I said earlier about, if it's on a, you've got a, some sort of delivery system and obviously you're passing over your mobile device.
[00:13:04]To somebody else, obviously, same thing. If you've got a paper and you're asking somebody to sign a bit of paper or whatever that is, and obviously there's more, more likely that you might transmit something, however, moving onto, that sort of digital transformation or other technology that you could use.
[00:13:18]You could look at some sort of remote remote signature or something like that. And there are things out there that can can help help businesses avoid those scenarios for their staff and people and and the world really, but yeah there's loads of different elements.
[00:13:33]So obviously security is quite a big deal at the moment. And securing data is very important in a paper-based world. It's it's very. It's very difficult to secure things on paper. There's ways to do it, but it's probably a lot more expensive to, to secure sort of paper-based bits of information than the digital equiv equivalent in that fact.
[00:13:56]And so a lot of the times the, the weak links. Ah, some sort of paper-based process or it might be, there's a load of other elements around that such as the solo security policies, like if they're not being followed or whatnot and mostly the awareness within the business.
[00:14:11] So there's, I think. The benefits probably the security elements. I think the remote accessing information also the centralizing of information as well. So if if in a paper-based process or, even if you're using multiple systems in different departments searching for. A bit of information could be, or is going to be a lot harder.
[00:14:33] It fits in multiple formats. So it's a, it's it's using digital in a sensible manner. It's not just about putting it in, it's understanding the rest of the process, rest of the flow and having something that's Harmonious to the small business environment to to make it easier for whatever that business is going to attain and what it's going to do.
[00:14:54]I think there's a lot, there's a lot of, there's a lot of different benefits. It could be I think there's one, one, Oh, there's a couple of examples. A couple of times that I've. The experience where thoughts, coming back to the sort of the security element elements of it.
[00:15:10] I once went into a an accountancy firm and I was waiting in the in the reception. Funny enough, I was going to be working hopefully with them to help move into that digital arena. They'll vary. Paper-based and just from observations, it was was sitting in the reception. And the first thing I noted was one, I was the only one sitting in this reception room.
[00:15:30]I don't know where the receptionist had gone, but I did notice boxes of paper by a desk. And as I. Well, as I walked in, as I left, I don't look, I wasn't looking for anything, but I did notice there was personal information on just the top of those of those powers. And, it might not be.
[00:15:48] It's just it's might not be an awareness thing. They probably ran out of a room to store that paper, but the the risks involved for for that type of thing, I could quite easily taken a picture. I could have taken anything from that. Obviously I'm not going to, I did avert my eyes as soon as I saw it, but it's it makes me nervous sometimes when going into companies and seeing and experiencing these these bits is It's interesting sometimes, but I think it's more, it is an awareness thing and it's a knowing that there's something better out there and, the.
[00:16:20] I guess, there's the well, there's huge fines for breaches and data. So it's it's people that have got to be more vigilant about it. And it's not just, it's not just the owners of businesses. I think it's the departmental heads to the the office workers and actually understanding it from a from a, the staff's perspective as well, really.
[00:16:41] But yeah there's many different benefits. I've probably set. I could take this whole hour just going through all of the different elements of it, but again, it's it's different to everyone. I think the You've got to do it in the right way. There, there isn't, that there is always going to be a time where I'm moving to a digital process will won't be beneficial for the business.
[00:17:01]But most cases it will be, but you've got to take the right approach is you've got to be vigilant and you've got to do your digital diligency and make sure that it's yeah it's going to be for the business and the future. It's going to be agile. It's going to help and effectively, it's going to save time or give some something back, whether it's a extra security or something back to the business.
[00:17:25] And that story about, being able to see these personal records on top of the desk. It does not say everything about paperless, that the thing is about paperless as well, is that you can't really contain the information like you can on a computer. And the good thing about computers is that you can.
[00:17:43]Chris OHare: [00:17:43] Restrict access to that information depending on your role and your permission. And I think that's what people don't really understand is that you can give bits of information, parts of information on a computer. You don't have to give the whole document or the whole file. And they don't have to see everything.
[00:18:02] Yeah. And I think that's really crucial to understand that, but I also liked the idea of being able to share the knowledge across the entire company. Because if you've just got one piece of paper, you need to be able to disseminate that across many people. Then you've got to either. Give thought original copy or make copies of that copy.
[00:18:22] And what you then have to do then is then physically distributes. It was obviously on a computer. You could say Shan immediately, we'll go out to your deal, to the relevant team or the relevant networks. Likewise with if you wanted access all kinds of data, right? So you've got all this historical data that you might need.
[00:18:42] You can You could search quite quickly between times stamps or keywords and really understand what it is that you need to get access to. Whereas if you've got tons and tons of paper archives, which, if you go to a law firm, that's all they have, they have these tons of these files where if you need to get access to something, you have to dig for these files.
[00:19:04] Whereas if you had a digital system, it's just a few clicks of a button, you've got all these. These documents that you need. And likewise, when creating these systems and these workflows, you have the ability to link them up, right? So you can link from, if you create this document, then it goes out to certain people automatically, and that must save a hell of a lot of time when it comes to administration of these kind of Usual file-based companies where there's people paid quite well to basically manage paper.
[00:19:40]Not. So they do receptionists or data administrators or whatever. That's literally what they do. And so if the machine can do that, then not only you're saving a salary, but you can actually if you don't employ extra people to do that, you can minimize the amount of people that do it, but also the people that are all doing it can be repurposed for other things that could be more beneficial to the company and actually makes them money rather than doing administrative.
[00:20:06] Work. So I think that there are a couple of benefits that I felt that were quite important that we covered when it comes to paperless digital transformation. But you've obviously been into quite a few companies now. And you've seen the companies that are fully paper. That's all they have.
[00:20:25] They have lots of filing systems and whatever, and you've migrated them through. I would assume quite a lengthy process of moving them from paper to something that's fairly digital. Have you got an example of how something that stands out in your mind of what happened to a company went from paper-based to paperless.
[00:20:48] Josh Wallman: [00:20:48] Yeah, there's a. There's quite a few, there's quite a few moments where I guess I've witnessed the benefits of from a very heavy, heavily paper-based process to a digital process. I think one there's a couple that we've done that we've worked on.
[00:21:02] There's one that's that, that stands out quite a lot because I guess I wasn't I wasn't really aware. How much paper was being used within a particular industry, but there's one there's one, one instance where working within construction there's a company that goes out and they they have to capture.
[00:21:20]Sort of time sheets and daily checks and it might be a defect report that they might have to do on a bit of equipment. But following the process through, and the whole kind of getting to the nitty gritty was, it's, it always seems to come down to how where is the whereas the first element of capturing information and if it's in a paper-based process, then the rest of the process is going to be very manual and it's going to be very hard to to move to that automation and move to that digital process in an easier fashion.
[00:21:50] But within this Within this well, one of the companies I was working with, they were, they had loads of paper-based time sheets, the ones that I had a pack within the within the cranes that they were using in the cab. They were getting the the contracts from the high desk. And it would either be.
[00:22:06]There'll be a mixed approach because everyone was working around the country. So it wasn't easy to pass that information across. So there'll be people effectively phoning up the the operators of these large cranes and telling them where the next job was. Or a lot of the times, and this happens, it seems to happen quite quite a few places where there'll be one person sitting there the night before.
[00:22:28] Texting all the operators to say where their next job is. And for them to go out on site and use these sheets of paper to record information on and the expectation for them to be out in a muddy yard or where it's raining outside and trying to fill in with a with a pencil with all the other stresses of what they've got to do as well.
[00:22:50]And it's It was strange. The hear the all obviously from us, it's quite, it looks quite okay. We know what the challenges are. And actually understanding that, from those operators perspective, they might be halfway across the country, but then they've got to send that information back to the back to the Depot for it to be processed and.
[00:23:07] There's only so many ways that you can send a sort of a paper-based of information that a, a lot of the times they were there take a picture on their phone and I'll send it through email or whatever. And then, you've got the poor people behind the high desk, sitting there, waiting for this information to come back so that they can go and invoice for the work.
[00:23:26]And, they're getting a scrappy piece of paper where they're trying to understand Dave's writing and and trying to work out. Is that a Zed? Is that an S is that a five or is that something else? And, trying to work out what it is, so you can imagine the back and forwards going on.
[00:23:41]And the delays of that paper-based processes is creating really. So I guess the before element was. Just a lot of time was just being spent. There were, there's a lot of, human error that goes on with a paper-based process. It's it's a little bit frustrating as well. And it's it's one of those things it's every wants to improve that type of process, but they don't have the time to do so because.
[00:24:11] They're still doing that process. And it's a loop it's going around in a circle and there's only one way you just have to, you have to find a way to try and stop it, have to find somewhere better something better to do to do that process. And it's sometimes a case of stepping back and looking at that process and going okay.
[00:24:27] These are the biggest bottle bottlenecks of this all this process. How can we how can we change it? How can we gradually change that process and get into the mindset of of doing it better? And I think the, there was a couple of massive benefits for once that actually went paperless and had that sort of digital process.
[00:24:46] And there was a couple of automation parts in there. It was just the Kind of what was deemed as the surprising aspect of moving into that process was actually, it's not just about sending information in a digital process, but it's all the other things that digital can do and benefit off the back of that.
[00:25:05]Such as grabbing. Sort of location geo stamps and stuff like that to save time for instead of having him, having to input those bits of information into or onto a piece of paper, if it was a sort of digital format, you can get all these other bits or the. Information.
[00:25:21] The time sheets, somebody or Dave would have to write his name in at the top and his maybe staff ID, his email address or whatever, it might be just at the star. And it would have to do that every single day for every single time that he's going to be captured or the defects that he was recording or daily check.
[00:25:38]Whereas in the digital process, It's already there, he's only, he only needs to capture the relevant information that's that he's doing. There's so many little elements in that that's all built up. One bit that I always find that's quite amusing is that if you've.
[00:25:53] Got some sort of defect or you need to take some sort of picture. If you're in a paper-based process, you're filling in the paperwork and whatever. And then you are then, from a company's point of view, they're expecting for a picture to be attached to that. And there are so many different, creative ways for somebody to do that.
[00:26:10] However one, one time, I I was basically followed the process of somebody doing this and they'd taking a picture on their smartphone or their personal phone they're then emailing it to their work phone they're waiting later on so that they can go onto their computer. Take that image.
[00:26:26] They'll put it onto their desktop. So far you've got so many copies of exactly the same picture. And then they're trying to stick that picture into the. Copy of the defect report that they've built up then again, because that was in a paper-based process. They're trying to stick it into a word document and nothing's quite lining up, but then they're sending it on as that word document.
[00:26:46] And it's it's suddenly a huge file because it's so many images. So struggling to send it by email because the file size is too big. It's it's all these little things and. Let's stick with Dave here who was a struggling by the way, Dave doesn't exist. I I changed the name, but trying to send this in, you could be, he could have been spending time with his kids sitting, watching Netflix or the hustle on YouTube.
[00:27:09]There, there are, there were definitely So massive benefits. And it's a, it's the little stories which are are the, I guess the takeaways that is you don't quite see or perceive when you're first approaching, but you're always hoping for these little stories used to come out from a from like a suppliers point of view when you're trying to improve a business.
[00:27:27] So it's it's quite nice. Lot of that story. And I'm sure Dave is very glad that you've censored his name. Because that sounds like a typical story to be fair. It's something that I hadn't even thought about myself, but, and to be honest, I've probably done the same trying to attach stuff to a word document and then trying to send it.
[00:27:49] Chris OHare: [00:27:49] And that's because they that's the way that. The person that wants the word document, that's how they want it. But if they had a paperless system that would all managed by an online form and you wouldn't have had to deal with any of that. So I think it was really interesting and I think there's a lot of people that still do that kind of process with word documents when it comes to application forms and the likes.
[00:28:11] Yeah that's an interesting one for businesses, but you were talking about audits at the beginning. Your business, essentially, audit's companies on what they need to do to migrate it's a paperless. How do you identify these things that they need to migrate to paperless? I think again it's one of those.
[00:28:32] Josh Wallman: [00:28:32] Every, every company is different. I think it is working with. Larger businesses is different working with smaller businesses as well, because there are so many more stakeholders involved. It's easier for a smaller business to transform and change because there are effectively less people in that sort of change management process.
[00:28:51]I think. Boiling it down to the basics. I think it's so easy to become overwhelmed and, the amount of technology that can come in and change it. It's it's keeping it simple more than anything. So what we do is when we're going into a company and we're approaching it for the first time, it's effectively, first of all, absolute basics, it's identifying the process and looking for areas that either take the longest amount of time or.
[00:29:18] People are moaning about, or it's identifying the bottlenecks within that process. And it's, most simplistic element it's it's sometimes quite difficult and it's understanding as well from. Other people's points of view, they might not be aware that there's something else better that can that can help them.
[00:29:36] And it might be it might be just a change of mind. It might be just a change of a process. A lot of the, a lot of the mindsets or, there's a couple of times where I've come across, which is probably the most dangerous ways that, you know I've always done it this way. So it works and yeah, that's great.
[00:29:53] It works, if you're trying to compete against a, another business or you're trying to grow as a company that's only going to multiply as you're growing. Think the largest bets and the thing that flies under the radar as a, as the core element, which I'm always looking out for is time.
[00:30:09] Now, it's always a thing that's just taken for granted. Janet might be taking calls for and finding. Information for customers, for example, and Joan is sitting on the desk and somebody is calling her up and going, Oh what's what is the latest fee I need to pay for the service you've provided or whatever it might be.
[00:30:27]And Janet might not have, if it's in a paper-based process, you might not have the to be able to go and grab that information in an easy fashion. So it's from. From straight away. If that's in a paper-based format or process, then it's going to be, it's going to take time for Janet to go and find that bit of information to get back to the customer.
[00:30:44]In that time there could be X amount of other calls going on. There could be other customers querying for other things. It's come into a customer service elements of it. The business needs to be portrayed that they can deliver information back to people that are querying things to, to make things more efficient.
[00:31:02]Whereas if Janet's done that all of her life and it's a fine process. It's not going to help the company grow. It's going to, it's just going to make it harder. And it's it's probably the kind of. Professionalism that comes across as well, especially in a weld that everything and everyone is in a, we want this now we want we need to if you want to, I don't know if you want to order something, you can use delivery, you get it instantly.
[00:31:25] It comes in, you can see the whole process. They've done well to digitize that process because you can see every step of the process in terms of what's actually happening, whereas it's a better. It seems a bit old hat when you go back and you solve, if you're calling up a restaurant to get some food delivered and they don't have any of these technologies, you have no idea about your order.
[00:31:45] If it's delayed, you might get nervous because you don't have any visibility of information. So take it back into the sort of basics it's identifying the process and identifying what's taking the longest amount of time or what is just taking time in general. And seeing if there's a better approach to that.
[00:32:01]Another core elements of it is, and it comes down to what we're talking about, but it's paper. It's looking around and it's probably the most easiest and visual. Part of it. And it's strange because I might call up a company and go w what is your, what are the things that taking your time?
[00:32:15] And this has, there might be hard for business owners to think, okay, these things take time, but it might not be obvious. Whereas, seeing that there's a pile of paper in the corner is a question Mark, having filing cabinets with paper inside it is a, is another question, Mark.
[00:32:31] So it's it's identifying these elements and going. Maybe there's something better. And I guess it's it's using, what is the visual element of it and then investigating it a little bit more. So going, okay. So why is it in that paper based format? Maybe there is a legitimate, easy reason.
[00:32:46]Then it's putting those. So question, it will questioning around it basically. If there isn't a good reason of why that's in a paper-based process, then it's putting the house in place, the Watts swears and and seeing a little bit more of what's what are the difficulties around those processes?
[00:33:05]So yeah, I think solve identifying is finding bottlenecks within a business. Really it's not, it might not necessarily just be the paper-based process, a lot of the times when a company has they've grown up and they've got multiple systems and softwares in place it can be it can be hard for one department to send a bit of information to another department because they've got a completely different bits of software.
[00:33:32]Again, that's another bottleneck in terms of what is, how is it. Getting across that barrier is it being printed off and then scan back into a new system, which it happens. More often than not. And sometimes the largest companies are the ones that are doing these sorts of processes because, they've got something efficient in one department, something else in another department, but in between nothing's going on, there's this there's just people to go.
[00:33:57] Okay I need to try and get that information into another one. And it's because it's not a, it's not seamless than this. It's those department heads that haven't been communicating as a whole as a as one, basically. That's some really good insight. So in terms of, how you can identify things, and then I never even thought about the idea of being able to just spot a pile of papers in the corner and go, something could be done better here and likewise with the filing system. So I really liked that one. And it's thinking about. Outside of the box as well. Isn't it? It's looking at how you can take these papers that you're doing and then implementing a workflow or a process that you would normally do a task with and put that into a system and automation system.
[00:34:45]Chris OHare: [00:34:45] And anyone who's listened to this podcast knows I love automation and it's the secret to scaling. And that's, again, something that you said is that if you want to scale your business, you're going to need to be able to create these automations, these remove these bottlenecks and implement something far better.
[00:35:03] But you've got you started talking about how you could Identify these processes. I think that's a good step to talk about. What are the things you need to go paperless? Because obviously you've been a consultant you're going into these companies. You're advising them on what they need to do.
[00:35:22] What are the steps that you advise businesses to go paperless? Again it's always going to be different for every company, but the standard ways of. When when I go in and approach businesses is first of all, it's reviewing the process and identifying the bottlenecks as, as previously mentioned, but it's also, it's building that vision.
[00:35:42] Josh Wallman: [00:35:42] So where I said the it's a lot of it is about mindset. It's building that dream building what's actually going to happen in the future. And how is the company aligned to that vision? So I guess, first of all, it's he's making sure. That's alignment. Isn't just a single person's vision.
[00:35:59] It is something that can be spreads through the company. It can be something that everyone can understand and attain and actually look towards really One of the biggest kind of, I think fundamentals or kind of blockages to companies going forward and paperless is mostly people are the people within within the company and basically getting their buy-in.
[00:36:21]One thing that I noticed that seems to work is, once you've got that and you've created an aligned the vision and what is, where the company wants to go it's It's it's assigning the responsibilities as well to different people so that they've got something to go towards.
[00:36:38] And basically it's putting those little tasks and objectives in place so that they've got those challenges to overcome. But I think the single factor is actually, so coming back to that, Buy-in it's actually asking people, asking staff, how could you do this better? What do you think?
[00:36:55] How would you approach this? And making it valuable for them? Understanding that Janet who's been on the phone kind of collecting paper or whatnot. She might have a great idea. That's not identified by top level management because she's doing it day in, day out and actually she's.
[00:37:12] Already spotted a couple of ways that it could be improved. And then it's taking all those different ideas and actually I guess merging them into one and aligning the the vision and the strategy towards all these different things. Because I think in all businesses and everyone, I think it's a general idea that humans are effectively lazy, but intelligent because, we're always trying to look for shortcuts and things to make things easier and better and so forth.
[00:37:38] Whereas the top level management they might be go, okay, we need to save time. There's way too much paper. And they're looking for approaches and things that they need to need to do quick wins, where they can where they can pull together a resource to, to, have a common goal and a common energy towards actually a change changing those elements.
[00:37:56]And just by going to ask people what kind of things could be done, having focus groups and getting everyone involved then. Everyone's going to be going towards a similar goal because people want things more efficient anyway. So it tends to be quite a good way to I guess break the mold instead of just pushing things down, which, might be.
[00:38:19] Good in some elements some ways might be, it might be the best approach, but a lot of the times, if there's multiple people, multiple departments where everything is quite siloed, nobody's really communicating between each other and then actually going to speak to people, bring them together and challenge various elements of it is probably the best way to do it.
[00:38:39] And basically anchoring. Each change into the culture. Again, it's that mindset and that change and then placing little goals so that you can achieve them, the milestones. I think another quite important element to go. So paperless or the digital transformation is that actually have that sense of urgency.
[00:38:59] If there's no sense of urgency, then nothing's really going to move on that. So we're just going to be talk. There's nothing tangible, nothing real for company to push on and actually change. I think the dangerous thing is that it's just becoming complacent. So it's having that question there.
[00:39:15] What happens if we don't do anything, what are the implications? What, what is going to be the effect of the business make it real, make the the issues and, bring up the challenges that's around that. And that's only going to increase and and so forth. I think having that drive and, creating that sense of urgency is something that's very important as well.
[00:39:35]Yeah I think I think there's many ways that you could approach, but it's reviewing the bottlenecks, talking to people, getting the buy-ins creating tasks and challenges are also replacing goals and milestones. And then creating a sense of urgency. Probably the.
[00:39:50] The key bits I'd say to driving towards some sort of change. Pretty interesting that, and so what are your top three quick wins for getting going with paperless digital transformation,
[00:40:05] top three quick wins. So map out a structured process. Again, structured is the key word there. I think if you start mapping it down it's easier to start seeing where the bottlenecks are. One, one program that I use, which I think is really good, it's free. It's easy to get on, to read, easy to understand is this thing called diagrams.net and it's it's just a tool to build up workflows.
[00:40:32]And it's. Absolute simplicity. It's quite easy to view a work workflow and just go put it in and then see what, why are there so many steps in there and start questioning it that way? It's probably number one. Number two. Ask your staff ask people, ask colleagues everyone's going to have a different perception and a different way of dealing with things.
[00:40:53]And basically just asking how a process could be done better. Simple as it is. I don't think there's a, there's enough of that going on in terms of trying to move and get to that paperless stage. Number three it might be. Quite a simple way, but it's basically speak to and look into your current suppliers and what they can offer.
[00:41:13]It might be a case that actually, you need that, you don't know what the possibility is. It's a quick win to go and ask your current supplier the salespeople consultants to see what's. What they can offer, what they can, what can, how can they make it better?
[00:41:29] What are they observations about it? Again, they're going to be working with multiple industries and they're going to have different ideas to how to approach that. I think there's one might be going onto a fourth quick win. I don't know if I'm allowed to, but one thing for sort people out in the field.
[00:41:44] And one thing that I've noticed is that there's there's a product called remarkable, and I've seen it. I've worked with so many people, salespeople and consultants and people going out and just taking notes on paper and books and this and the other, which is great. It's some people really like that.
[00:41:59]But actually then when they're spending the time to convert that into a. Into a digital format, it's a very manual typing up sort of process. Whereas this product remarkable is Kindle that you can drop, jot notes down and it converts everything into a digital format for you.
[00:42:15] So it's a. Something that's, it's getting into that mindset and taking the leap and, having faith in those different products. But there's no, I don't think there's any reason to be so paper. We've got products that are got those. There are things out there that allow us to have a go ready.
[00:42:34] Chris OHare: [00:42:34] Great quick one sec, Josh really appreciate that. So if people want to learn more about going paperless, what resources are there available that they can find? I think the simplest and straightforward way to do it and to, to find out more information about going paperless is It's using search engines is typing in your query or what your issue is and doing that research?
[00:42:59] Josh Wallman: [00:42:59] I think I think some, I think it is taken for granted where there's, it's, it comes so simply for me to, when I've got an issue on I'm going onto a search engine and I'm finding something and, I'm using it to my advantage. And it's it is widely as it is used.
[00:43:17]I think it's something that I've noticed that people don't understand and they might just they don't know where to go. So it's a, it's probably, it's simple, it's effective. Search engines are basically your friend with anything. Yeah. Yeah, I could mention books and so forth, but everything's constantly evolving.
[00:43:34]Digital is evolving all the time and it's getting something relevant. So it's it's understanding how to find what information you require. Google is your friend.
[00:43:46] Chris OHare: [00:43:46] Yeah, as a developer Google is the word that I use all the time when I don't know something. And so I go on Google and I'm like, Google, tell me how to do this.
[00:43:56] Cause I have no clue. So I can imagine that. In all aspects of it. And digital did did, like you said, actually things are fast moving, but also if they're fast moving, that means there's not a place where you can go and find this information. So readily or that's Of the quality that you need, and sometimes people on the ground boots on the ground.
[00:44:16]Actually talking about the problems they're facing is probably quite good. I use cure quite a lot. When I type in questions cure tends to be a good place to look, but yeah. Great quick Windsor. How can people connect with you? LinkedIn, and it's probably the simplest way search for me, Josh Walman website.
[00:44:39] Josh Wallman: [00:44:39] So www.capja.co.uk. Also email any questions or any thoughts and so forth, quite simply [email protected]. Great.
[00:44:54] Chris OHare: [00:44:54] Thank you, Joseph. Thanks for your time today. Really appreciate that.
[00:44:57] Josh Wallman: [00:44:57] Thank you, Chris. Take care.
[00:45:06] Chris OHare: [00:45:06] You need digital transformation. Josh is clearly the expert to go to, but what did you think Joshs? Quick Wins, Quick Win. Number one. Map out your processes because when you map them out, you can see where the bottlenecks are. Quick, win. Number two, ask your staff how things can be done better. Everyone will have a different perspective of how to deal with things.
[00:45:30] A quick win number three, speak to your current suppliers on what they can offer to make your process. Better and a bonus quick win this time round, use a remarkable tablet to convert notes into digital format. But what was your favorite bit of the show? Tell me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram tick-tock or YouTube.
[00:45:51] Where do you can find me with. @Haredigital. And don't forget, you can also watch a show on YouTube or listen on all major podcast platforms, including Apple and Spotify. And if you're lovely enough to leave a review, I'll make sure to give you a shout out on a future episode. So thank you for listening and until next time, I'm your Quick Wins CEO signing out.

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