Toby Moore: My girlfriend is a Northern last and she constantly teases me for being here. Porsche softy southerner. And around the corner from our house is a croquet lawn. And I keep teasing her that I'm going to join the croquet club when lockdowns over. And she thinks that's the the the epitome of my softie Southern this.

[00:00:18] So for Christmas, I bought her a croquet set and, but I've bought several croquet sets and sent them back and so on because it's not quite right. Do you mean enlight? So again, like where are the. How do you measure that journey? Like how do you measure that? If we hadn't, if I hadn't had this silly conversation with my partner about croquet, if we hadn't moved to a house where there's a croquet law around the corner, if all of these things that led to me buying two croquet sets or for Amazon, like how do you measure that?

[00:00:49]There was, there, isn't some kind of like thought leader on Amazon talking about the qualities of the croquet lifestyle or something. And then somebody might subscribe to their newsletter and then engaged with three of their retargeting adverts and then bought two co-case sets.

[00:01:04]That's not how it happens. There's a whole conversation that's gone on completely outside of the view. And control of the seller of the product.

[00:01:22] Chris OHare: [00:01:22] I'm Chris, O'Hare your quick win CEO. And as a CEO, I've run businesses, family startup. It's consulting for others and even won awards. But in this show, we'll be talking to entrepreneurs and experts to help you understand key concepts for your business. Along with three quick wins that you can take away and apply to your business today.

[00:01:41] And every week we'll be finding out about the entrepreneur themselves and diving into a different, yeah. But important topic. There's competition time at the moment, I'm giving away 10 of my favorite business books, including lean startup and business model generation to one lucky winner. And these are great for all levels of scale from CEO to a founder.

[00:02:02] To answer. All you need to do is go to Apple podcast, subscribe, scroll to the bottom and leave a review. It doesn't have to be detailed. You can just say that you love this podcast and email quick Quincy or ahead or teach to, to say that you invented. But in this show, we'll be talking to Toby Moore, an expert content strategist.

[00:02:24] Toby runs a local group called content club. He's a director of TEDx Brighton, and he's just released a new software app to save time creating content using AI. And that's called. The works. You'll get to hear what makes Toby get out bed in the morning, how his priority has shifted to purpose led objectives, along with some incredible insights into why content is important beyond the SEO and how you can get started with your own content strategy.

[00:02:53] So here we go. Toby Moore. Thanks for coming on the show. Toby. So first. Tell me the last thing that you read or what's left an impression on you. So it could be a Netflix series or a funny video or a book you read. I'm making my way through three books at the moment, but I've given up on one of them finished another and and they're halfway through yet another and they're all around accidentally, I think all around like the betterment of humankind and moving beyond capitalism and such.

[00:03:28] Toby Moore: [00:03:28] So first was change everything. By someone whose name I've forgotten already. Another one. Cool. This could be our future by Yancey Strickler who's the founder or co-founder of Kickstarter. And then the one that I'm now halfway through it, it's a mammoth of a book is humankind by Oh my God.

[00:03:49] I've forgotten his name. That's something. That'll go. The chap that was famous for causing a stir at Davos a few years ago. And it's it's fantastic. It's so good to change everything book I gave up on because it's interesting. Cause they're all proposing the same. Potential sort of post-capitalism type future that we could all live in and how we can all love each other more and still be happy and make money and so on.

[00:04:13]But one was just ludicrous and just full of stupid examples that was overly academic. And next was just the Yan Nancy strictly on the Kickstarter guy. It was just beautifully written and I loved every minute of it. And the humankind book I'm trying my best. To stick with it. No, not stick with it.

[00:04:29] It's a great book. It's pretty well written, but it's five times longer than any other book that I've ever read, but I'm totally bought into this new way of life. Now I'm going to try my absolute best to save the planet. Whatever the hell it is I'm supposed to be doing there. Must've been a trigger for this.

[00:04:45]Chris OHare: [00:04:45] What is it that has made you, there must've been something. Yeah, there is. I think I think when I first started out my little entrepreneurial journey, I was well into this stuff. And then when you start getting stuck in and you have to deal with the realities of actually. Keeping clients and growing a business and looking after staff and paying freelancers and all of this sort of stuff, you can get so lost.

[00:05:12] Toby Moore: [00:05:12] And everyone's always get, focus on this or narrow your niche and laser in on that. And you're like, ah, and you zoom in on stuff. And for me it was all around content and it's like trying to. Make better and better content and be more efficient and more effective in the way you make content.

[00:05:28] And I think I realized particularly at the sort of the sort of nose end of lockdown. And COVID that like, that was just, it was too small. It's not a big. The bigger picture. Yeah. And this is stuff that I have cared about deeply play in the past and lost my thumb on it. If over the last maybe three or four years of getting sucked into a very kind of niche way of working. So like a lot of people with COVID and locked down and so on. It's been fine, but it's been radically different, there's, it's easily survived, but I've just had to do very different things.

[00:06:10] And with that, you get thrown into  what other things can I think about and do differently? And that's definitely one and getting back to the books that I first read that got me into. Not wanting to do what everybody told me to do anymore and all that sort of thing. And then getting back into those and then seeing, okay how far is the world come in five or six years, or even more than that now actually and there are good books out there and I've been reading them. And there you go. That's I guess that's the point, that's the twist and turning point for me in that respect. So something I had this year more and more is about mission like companies and the power that they can have within a company and the power outside of the company as well.

[00:06:49]Chris OHare: [00:06:49] And I've always thought. To lead a company as one person, but actually, or the co-founders basically the founders. And when I started to really dive into Michigan companies, what really inspired me about those was that the mission with the leader and actually all you were doing was supporting this ideal.

[00:07:15] And I love that. And I've been thinking about that ever since I really struck a chord with me cause I've heard about it for a while, but I've never actually felt that it was something I could do or actually, all I want to do is make money and. I do want to make money, but I want to do it with a reason that, makes the world a better place, but also allows me to fulfill my destiny as a, as an entrepreneur.

[00:07:42]And if it feels fulfilled my destiny as an entrepreneur, then it means I got all this bird time that I can do other things with. So you struck a chord for me though, when you were telling me about that. Saying that though, I haven't read any books about it. I can recommend you one or two.

[00:07:59] Toby Moore: [00:07:59] Okay. So definitely need to I think spend some more time with that and in in terms of looking at why I'm doing, and I think this is what this podcast is all about, to be honest, it's about spreading awareness of technology to people that just may not really understand what it is and how it can affect them.

[00:08:19] Chris OHare: [00:08:19] Anyway, Nephila, let's talk about you. Let's talk about your business and let's understand what it is you do on a day to day basis. My day to day basis is a difficult one because. I had one of those annoying people that just wears way too many hats, that they have a wardrobe fit to store in.  But most of the time I'm working on content club, which is my consultancy and community which is all around helping people create better content and feel more powerful as content creators and so on.

[00:08:53]Toby Moore: [00:08:53] What I've also been working on for the last seven, eight years now is TEDx Brighton. And. I would, this is the first year that we've never, that we've not done it. Which on one hand has been quite nice having a year off. But I'm definitely keen to get back on that again. And staff start making sure that we can come back and deliver a really great TEDx event in Brighton the next year.

[00:09:16]And then I work with. A couple of charities as well. So my partner runs refugee charity called the hummingbird project. So I work on that a day, a week ish and delivering this youth leadership program that we put together. And I'm a trustee for the Brighton youth center. And then finally, which is the thing that probably you're excited about, maybe hopefully is there a Postworks, which is a, which is the SAS company that I started over lockdown which is all around repurposing content, automating the way that we create content.

[00:09:46] That's what I'm saying. That's me in a relatively large nutshell. Wait, you sound like a busy guy. How'd you fit it all in. I knew you got a little then as well, coming up to two year old daughter and she's she's been keeping me more than busy over the last few weeks, a month as well. And knocked down.

[00:10:06] Chris OHare: [00:10:06] Can't imagine juggling and work over, locked down has been the challenge of the year, for sure. I know I'm not alone in it saying. But it's that's where the best stories will come from. Gotcha. Gotcha. And obviously we've seen a lot of people on zoom with their kids and actually I think that's what that's done is normalized, businessman or people with businesses made them.

[00:10:32] Actually you look like a family person, right? That's the thing it's bringing the family that the softer side of people, really important. I hope it stays,  but you see all these big high-flying executives and they,  they have the family run in on them, one on a zoom call and I think that's a nice touch.

[00:10:52]And for fortunately it required a catalyst like COVID too. Do you remember that? Do you remember that thing? It was the, on the BBC a couple of years ago. It was the guy. Yeah, it's attached a out in China or something. And like his kids all run in with the toddler Walker and stuff. And then the furnish runs in like scrambling on the floor, pulling them out.

[00:11:11] Toby Moore: [00:11:11] And you think if that happened, like now, like everyone would just have a Juilliard time about it. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's cool. I remember we did a as a part of the hummingbird project, we did an event with.  The international rescue committee.  Got to be on a zoom call with David Miliband and it was just, it's just so weird.

[00:11:27]Looking like these people that like in your mind or your world, they're just up there. And then they are just sitting in their attic room, like on zoom with you. It's a funny, old thing that it is a, it's a, I always say low zoom is like a great leveler, right? It's It's that thing that, you could see people's hidden worlds now, right?

[00:11:49]Chris OHare: [00:11:49] Th the houses and where they live and actually roll the same behind the screen. But January I've actually come to hate it because of that as well, because one of the I'm in my office now, and I took on an office probably September, October time, and one of the big drivers behind it was because I was so tired of inviting people into my house.

[00:12:09]Toby Moore: [00:12:09] Particularly when I was doing like I've stopped doing any I didn't do many at all, but like with content club, back in real life, a year or so ago, I was doing three or four events a month, in real life, in co-working spaces and event spaces and pubs and stuff.

[00:12:25]Chris OHare: [00:12:25] Whereas now I've probably done five events tops throughout lockdown because I just didn't enjoy it. Then I go into other people's and turning up and doing stuff like this, but like hosting something and inviting. 2030, 40, 50 people into your house. Do you mean? And particularly in the early days of lockdown where my partner and I were separating out our house.

[00:12:45] Toby Moore: [00:12:45] So like our bedroom was our office and then I didn't really get one, these people coming into my bedroom sure. To me. And then eventually I just got, so yeah I, that was one of my things that I've become most. Tired or is it inviting the general public into my home? So maybe not so much a leveler in my book, but  zip fatigue is definitely a thing.

[00:13:05]Chris OHare: [00:13:05] So I think you can always have too much of a good thing and too much of any one thing. I have an office. But I split my time between home and my office, and that gives me a change of scenery that I really value. And you don't, it doesn't become this monotonous grind every day of just working in the same place in the same location.

[00:13:26] Toby Moore: [00:13:26] I'll ask you a personal question about lockdown. How have you been getting on with your hair? I really struggled. So during lockdown, it was a bit mad. But the day of locked down just the day before I got a haircut and I got it as short as I possibly could. So I was golden for three months. I hate having short hair.

[00:13:47] And  cut my own hair. I cut my own hair now. And I did it again a couple of nights ago and I, it looks so terrible. I'm so fed up with it. And I've just not been brave enough to go to the hairdressers. I don't know why. I don't know why normally, because they usually put my hair cut like a month in advance at the moment.

[00:14:03] It's hard to do anything more than about four hours in advance, just in case, or it comes out and announces that you can't go to. Foster on the way to Tesco's or something. I don't know. But yeah. Anyway, I won't trouble you with that question and you put it much more in control of the situation. I did the same again.

[00:14:21] Chris OHare: [00:14:21] So when lockdown was about to hit again, I went the day before, so I was golden again.  Can't help myself. I just feel like I'm looking at myself on Zeb day in, day out. You become way more. Self-conscious, I've even turned off on some days. The you can go hide self view on zoom. And I think it's really important for your mental health.

[00:14:45] Toby Moore: [00:14:45] Cause you don't think about it. You don't look in the mirror every day at work. But that's what I said to you, what we're doing now.  And they've seen that. Yeah. Cosmetic surgeries arise massively because of goodness. So it just shows you that there's some data. Yeah. That's a podcast in itself,

[00:15:05] Chris OHare: [00:15:05] but 10 let's talk about Postworks right. Let's just talk about what that does at the moment. I'll tell you what it was, then I'll tell you what it is. And then I'll tell you what it might be in the future. I started out as an e-commerce platform would you believe, and basically what I was struggling to work a problem that I was struggling to solve for the content club community, which were all solo business owners, freelancers, that sort of thing is that they were increasingly trying to work out how to repurpose content.

[00:15:40]Toby Moore: [00:15:40] And for ages, I was thinking, how could I build in a repurposing content service and content club, but at the same time, like that just doesn't fit into the range of services that it offers because content club is like. Free for most people. And then there's just like a sort of creamy set of businesses at the top that pay top dollar for whatever the hell it is that they want me to do.

[00:16:02] And and that didn't really fit in to the pricing structures and so on and things that I did, the content clubs. So I decided to try and figure out how to platform a ties that, and I built an online shop basically, where you would. You would upload your blog post and then you'd go to an online shop and you would select like three Instagram posts, three Facebook posts, LinkedIn posts or something, and they would have it all up and just give you a little price and put on like a check in the shopping basket.

[00:16:30] And you just put your credit card detail and it flings the order off, confined or something. And then and then yeah, five days later, me and some Mary freelancers would turn your order around and send it back. I encountered two problems whilst building that. Problem number one is that people didn't want to pay before they saw their content.

[00:16:45] They wanted to see the content and then pay. And the second problem was is I still, I didn't actually want to do the work. I didn't actually want to fulfill people's orders. It was still not solving that same problem. So I then. Sets about working with the developer to create a tool for myself to make that faster.

[00:17:09] Found a developer and we started working on this little platform that basically allowed me the, when someone submitted an order, I would then put their blog posts that they'd sent over into this tool. And it would chop out all of the,  Salient bits of copy from the blog post.

[00:17:23] And I showed that to a couple of people and just say, Hey, look at this thing that I built. And they're like, that's amazing. That's so much better than the other thing that you were doing. Can I just pay 10 quid a month or something to access this site? Yeah. Okay. And so then I went down that route and then just started and then just started productizing that and within a month or two, I'd managed  to set up.

[00:17:45] Set up that as a SAS tool and onboard the first few customers and just being continually improving the feature set within that toolbox and trying to bring in more of a new customers as we go. And it brought me back to an objective that I had a couple of years ago, which was basically to build a platform that, that automates the creation of content.

[00:18:10]So now I'm aiming into the sky and have cooked up a wide range of bits and bobs that that should or could be built over the next few years in order to turn it into a proper probably agency led platform that allows people to leverage pre-built content strategies, and then automated workflows that allows you to decide how much of your content a human will create and how much of it a robot will create based on those templates and things.

[00:18:39]That's where we are, but if anybody wants to use it right now, you can, it's 17 pounds a month and you can turn blog posts into buckets of social media content at the click of a button that is the sales page anyway, and yes, there you go. Makes sense. Sound cool. Yeah. I think it's perfect. I think it's exactly what people need.

[00:18:59] Chris OHare: [00:18:59] In fact, I was talking to someone today. Needing something similar. So maybe I'll pause you on that lead. So next I'll give you 17 pounds. Oh, appreciate that. I can get a few drinks. 17 pounds is how much my favorite bottle of wine costs and marks and Spencer's as well. And that was basically my pricing strategy.

[00:19:20] So that every time I get a new customer, I can go out and spend that first. That first month's revenue on that bottle of wine, reinvested in the business then.

[00:19:31]But it's really interesting that you paid a developer to do this. So how are you funding that you bootstrapping. Just re just using services revenue at the moment to funnel back into the product. In my previous business, I did have a co-founder who was the CTO and lead developer on the product we were building back then.

[00:19:50]Toby Moore: [00:19:50] And I don't know, the world's changed since then. We started that business like four or five years ago. And and back then, like having a CTO co-founder was the thing that you had to do in order to move this stuff forward. And a lot of  the culture and the temperature and the guidance and stuff around that has changed now.

[00:20:10] And I'm finding that particularly if you want to get something off the ground, you've just got to build something small and you've got to build it fast. And you've got to work out how to meet the most basic need of the audience that you want to serve. And you don't need, I was paying a full time salary to someone, for a project that was only costing money and not making any money because it was the software, it was, we were early stage SAS company, but all of the money came from services and services, revenue, and all the money got spent on building software.

[00:20:41]Whereas now, like I'm spending. Hundreds of pounds a month, rather than thousands of pounds a month. You know what I mean? And still able to have a product out there to be bringing on customers and learning about them, and having a really basic product,  allows you to, focus on the customers more.

[00:21:02] Cause you've actually got less to look after. And so in theory, you can spend more time working with them. With your customers and working out what to build next. And that was always the problem that I had in my previous situation of trying to do this stuff was just build all the time, no backend front end, how much, how much testing can we build into everything that we're doing?

[00:21:23] Like, how do we make sure that our, I know that we're running on the right Coobernetti set up and all that sort of stuff. And then and then you suddenly realize that a few years on the, you still haven't launched the product. And it's a busy building, all of that stuff. You forgot about, customers and stuff.

[00:21:42] So this time I've tried to really learn from that lesson and just do the most basic thing that I can to get a product out there and get customers on it. And then worry about all of that stuff. When when I come to it, No, I completely agree. And the MVP essentially is what you have. And I learned my lesson, but that as well, coming from a software background, it's very easy to shove more features into something than actually learn what the problem is, trying to what the customer wants and the problem you're trying to solve.

[00:22:18]And. That's something that I'm doing with my clients today is how really helping them to really understand what that problem is and go through all the different layers of working out what that problem is, but that the idea that you have an MDP and then you basically learn from the MPP and you can tell you that even, further back.

[00:22:39] So another one of my podcasts is basically about prototyping. Are we looking at the different ways of prototyping, so you don't necessarily have to have a working prototype for it to actually, cause that was, for me, like the prototype was the e-commerce product and that, that told me that people wanted that service, but they just didn't want to buy it in that way.

[00:23:00]So now, so that gave me the information that I know, and I built that in a day. It's an online shop. It's not difficult.  So then the next stage was I, okay how do I provide the same service, but change the way that people can buy it. And that's like that then what spurred me on to do the next step and then the next step and the next step.

[00:23:17]And I think it really something that I've learned that I think is invaluable and others I hope can learn from too. And in terms of approaching the prototyping and MVP is. I haven't started from what I would consider the beginning of the product. I've started from looking at all of the things that I would like to build and then going that is a killer feature that doesn't exist yet.

[00:23:43] Like how can I build that in isolation? So yeah, I want to build this whole platform that takes you from the beginning of planning, your content ideation, content, researching your audience all the way through to delivering that as an automated campaign, et cetera. If I'd started at the beginning, there.

[00:23:58] I would have just been building digital post-it notes or a Kanban board, which exists already in the likes of tools that we'd like to use, but things like that. Whereas the whole idea of repurposing content. Yeah. There's a couple of emerging players and stuff out there. This is quite expensive still, because they're trying to leverage AI and all this sort of thing.

[00:24:16]So how can we just like. How can we make that better then this is the sort of thing. And I'm just looking at, what's my physical process for this, how do I do this as a person? And, if I'm going to sit there and take a blog post apart, like manually, and then how can I just teach a bit of software to do that as quickly as I can, even if it's only doing 50% of the work or something like that, but that's still, a few hours turned into.

[00:24:42] A couple of seconds and that's useful. And then as soon as I started looking at it like that, it was like, that's a killer feature. It, now when I'm talking to investors and stuff, I'm like, we have a killer feature MVP and that's the language I'm using. And whether that resonates yet, I'm uncertain.

[00:24:58] And yet to see, but it resonates with me. Like I get that. And for me that's much more powerful than just yeah. Building a. Content planning tool, something like that, which would be the beginning of the journey. If I was starting with, with the simplest thing that the tool does, rather than that.

[00:25:16] Coolest most unique thing that the took does, if that makes sense, makes perfect sense. And I loved it. The th the audience will be able to pick through your thinking process  and the way that you were going. If this is a problem, Then, how could we solve this? And,  if I was going to do this as a human, how would a robot do that?

[00:25:35] Chris OHare: [00:25:35] I didn't ask really good. And essentially this is what people don't really understand is essentially AI is just a set of rules. And then we just basically give them those rules and they go away and learn how to do things. And it says, essentially, they're just. Being a human right. Cause that's what we do.

[00:25:53] We regard for it and will work out well, how do I get to the end result, like our improve in setting rules and problem solving. So that was really good. I really appreciate that. Let's move on to the kind of main topic of this podcast, which is content creation. And you're an expert in content.

[00:26:10]You're the pro you're the man. And. I'm going to go through some questions I think can really help already, et cetera, understand why content is important and different varying things around that. First of all, why is content important?

[00:26:30] Toby Moore: [00:26:30] What's more interesting is you tell me because you create your podcasts and and you've got your videos that you make and so on. But that's not your. Like skill, like  you're in a different market and so on. So why are you using content to promote the thing that you do?

[00:26:48] It's really a good point. For me, it's about building a community around technology and business, but also. Translating that technology and giving people the power to be able to make decisions when it comes to technology. There's a lot of people that I see are paralyzed. They see these different paths and all these different opportunities when it comes to technology and they don't necessarily know which way to go.

[00:27:15] Chris OHare: [00:27:15] And they got competing advice. So they'll go to one agency or they go to another consultant and they're experts in different things, and they always are biased in those. Approaches. So for me, it's about educating my audience. And creating a community around that to democratize that ability to utilize technology democratizing technology is super key and it's not necessarily in the, in, in the control of the experts.

[00:27:47]And I'm a big supporter of no code platforms now, like bubble. For this very reason. And it's giving the power to of the ideators, right? The people that create the ideas and then allow them to create the MVP right now. I bet you wish you could do this all yourself and perhaps you could potentially build your platform and it's something like a no code solution, but you leave me.

[00:28:12] I've tried. Oh there you go. But that process of you trying to do that is educated you a hell of a lot. So you now know what, where the drawbacks are. It's something like ninth code. I mean that, for me, that's why I'm creating the content. Obviously there's a an uptick of it's gonna get me more work.

[00:28:31]And that, of course that's what a lot of people create content. But it's about also allowing my advice to to be spread in a more kind of asynchronous manner, rather than one-to-one, it's one to many, right? That's something else that's super important. And I know that with you, I've looked at your videos and your blogs, and that's essentially what it is for you as well.

[00:28:54] You're allowing your knowledge to be spread to multiple people. Then there's this, and then there's this magic trick. I don't care about much for SEO. We can talk about that later if you'd like, but it's the magic trick. You mentioned very briefly, like it helps me get more work and what I'm finding increasingly is like the importance of being able to.

[00:29:17] Toby Moore: [00:29:17] Create something tangible that allows that goal to sit alongside everything else that you've just described around education, building community, creating relationships, democratizing the expertise and so on, and not allowing those two things to be mutually exclusive. So really understanding. Okay if I do this.

[00:29:41]If I go out and do this altruistic thing, like how does it actually enable that other than just going, Oh yeah it does this and this, because they're both the same, if you approach it in the right way and you de fluff that thing, because it can be seen as  this is the fluffy bit, and this is the hard, tangible bit.

[00:30:00] And hopefully if I, and hopefully if the fluffy bit takes off then somehow that will just make that bit. Work and really, we need to stop thinking like that because as soon as you start looking at how much you're spending on making this content, or how much time you invest in creating this content and so on and so forth, and you don't want those two things competing with each other, and that's where so many people end up.

[00:30:27] And so many, even big organizations end up because, they'll, this marketing manager will just be told to educate the audience and then they'll spend a year and a half doing that. And then there'll be like, so how many leads do you create? And it's Oh, I thought my job was to educate the audience.

[00:30:40] They're like, Oh yeah, but an leads, and it's, it gets so, so making sure that these things aren't a conflict is the thing. And that's  more and more over the last, particularly the last year. That's what I've been spending my time, figuring out to the point where, content is a Mo isn't a marketing thing anymore.

[00:30:59] It's. It's a sales enablement thing, but it's also like, how do you use it as a method and as an asset and so on in order to be like, this is what my business looks like now, this is what I want it to look like in six months. And this is what I want it to look like at 12 months.

[00:31:12] And this is how we're going to use content to do that. And. Judging that from a marketing point of view, from a sales point of view, from a brand building point of view, from an employee point of view, all of those sorts of things. And that's what I really think is getting bigger and becoming more and more exciting about content is how you look at it.

[00:31:30] All of the different business functions that you care about improving and then going, how do we use content in order to make that happen? And a lot of increasingly, so like those answers are becoming more obvious to even the biggest businesses. And that's and, I think that's just really important for us to start doing now as people, as individuals, as business owners, whatever is starting to de fluff that thing and start going, no, this isn't just a nice thing to do, and hopefully it makes the other thing, the other line go up you need to figure out how do I get my business to where I wanted it to be by using content.

[00:32:10] So let's dive into that a bit more, right? So a lot of people will be making podcasts or podcasts have skyrocketed over 2020. Now a lot of people will say, I want to build a community. I want to educate my audience, become the authority and an expert in my area, but not necessarily. Understand how it best correlates with the business, right?

[00:32:36] Chris OHare: [00:32:36] Because the two, they might be focused on one audience for the podcast and the business actually focuses on a slightly different demographic. Now, what show have you got a framework or methodology to think about how you align that content with, your business model and what you're trying to do with that?

[00:32:56]Toby Moore: [00:32:56] Yeah.  Do have a framework and that's become that framework has now become the product of content club. And I've tried to do over the last few years is just dude, think about two things. I think about what I've done, like as a professional. Content strategist creator, both for myself and for the businesses that I've either worked for or with.

[00:33:19]But then also the nice thing about educating people is that you're learning on your learning whilst you're teaching. And the more and more like the night, one of the good things about like public speaking and writing and all of this sort of stuff is it gives you the opportunity to figure out how to articulate the busy ideas in your head.

[00:33:39] And to, and particularly if you give yourself quite tight constraints around. How you're delivering that content. So I'm a big champion of creating is a part of this framework. You create all of the constraints around your content strategy before you actually create any content. So you select three or four content types that you're going to work with.

[00:33:56] You build the templates that will. Allow you to build those bits of content, you design your schedule around how you're going to produce and promote that content before you produce or promote a content. Cause then that gives you some positive constraints play around with it's a bit like why is a TEDx talk 18 minutes?

[00:34:11] Because that's the, apparently the amount of time that it takes to really convey a meaningful idea without being too waffley about it.  And so we built these. These tools and these templates and these constraints around our content strategy. So that when we go, okay the idea that we need to convey is how do you build a prototype for an app or something like that?

[00:34:33] And you go, okay I've got to write a blog post that's 800 words about it. I've got to record a webinar. That's 30 minutes about it. And then I've got to try and convey this stuff in half a dozen different Facebook posts, and if you've got that decision laid out in front of you already.

[00:34:46] Then you're forced to try and work out how to educate your audience in the most effective way in the most open and accessible way through those bits of content. And it gives you the opportunity to figure out how to articulate this stuff. And once you've done it once, then you go, Oh, okay.

[00:35:04] I've uncovered a repeatable message here. So the next time I go and. Go on this podcast or get interviewed by this or write a blog post. I know that's a great way of explaining this thing. I'm sorry. I've sidetracked ever slightly, but like it's this it's this sort of magic upshot of creating stuff is it enables you to learn how to describe and talk about and articulate those things even better the next time that you come to talk about them.

[00:35:27]So that's a big part of. Creating content is think about what you get back from the creative process itself and how you then reuse that in order to make the next thing or the next thing better. It's not just about learning how to make the lighting better on your podcast for the next one.

[00:35:42]It's about learning how to, I bet every time that you introduce a podcast, you go. Oh, I can probably shorten that up a bit and make that a bit more snappy or I can definitely introduce myself better than that, and it's the same applies for all of the knowledge that you've got. So what might have used to have taken you an hour to something, some complex thing that used to take you an hour to get across?

[00:36:01] You can probably now do in 90 seconds or something like that. And that's the power of having a really strong creative process behind something. And then finally  there's this, there's the commercial aspects of stuff, which is, your, in terms of talking about a framework that gets you from a to B I'm a big fan.

[00:36:19] And the reason that I told you that I don't like SEO is because I've seen too many companies allow their marketing strategy to be entirely led. By sci and it's such a big mistake. It's such an expensive mistake as well. And when someone's trying to go, like we want to be the market leaders, showing up at the top of the Google, doesn't make you a market leader like leading with your most innovative and exciting ideas makes you a market leader.

[00:36:46] And the tricky thing around that is that if you've got a genuinely unique and innovative idea, John's is all that no one else is writing about that or talking about that. So what date review got to ride on that? That's what people want to hear about, if you just constantly just try and create a better piece of content about the thing that your competitor has already created.

[00:37:08] Like where's the innovation coming from there, whereas the genuinely new and interesting ideas coming from, and in my experience, the best. And most innovative and the most uniquely positioned ideas come from like you and your conversations with your customers or your prospects or your team. And so on.

[00:37:29] And that's where I really liked to find the best ideas for content. In the same reason that you do this podcast, you'll go back through the podcasts. Probably not from this one, because I'm not saying there's anything particularly interesting, but maybe other people you've interviewed and you'll find, Oh, that was a really interesting conversation that I learned something new there.

[00:37:44] I uncovered something that that I had not thought of before. And now I want to Package that up and turn it into a campaign of other content. And that's what I really liked to do. So what I teach people with, and I've just been doing this actually this week, I've done it with two reasonable, reasonably sized, one, one marketing agency and one software company where we're going, what are the questions like, what are the questions that our salespeople get?

[00:38:07] One of the questions that our customer service is, people get th that effectively enable us to sell more stuff or have better customer relationships. I like to break it into like customer acquisition, customer loyalty, and customer advocacy. What are the questions that we get that enable those three things?

[00:38:25] And then we build content around those questions. And we build well-structured campaigns of content around those questions. So we know that we have something that creates a conversation, something that creates, trust and something that creates like some of those of discovery as well, all around one question.

[00:38:38] So we've got that journey for someone to go on to eventually have a conversation with us in real life about that question. So if it's, how do I build an MVP for my app? That's that. Twenty-five minute webinar. That's like going, okay this is box a, and this is boxy. And we drew a line here and then we built some dilute a little bit like, and that's you showing them, but you need, they need to go on some journey to get there first.

[00:38:58] So they need to hear about it somewhere and like a Facebook post or a 32nd excerpt from it. Podcast or something where you demonstrate that, you know something about this, you're presenting it with confidence and with some joy as well. So that they're going, okay, this guy seems like the sort of person that I might enjoy talking to about these things.

[00:39:16] And then they go a little bit further and they go, okay I've read the blog post. And now I know that he also does know something about these things and then they watch the twenty-five minute thing. And they're like, yeah, I think I need to have a conversation with this guy about these things, and it's about trying to understand that journey. Around that question. And that question is usually going to come from, your customers, your prospects or whatever. And if a big part of your work is we need to build an MVP. And you're like, if that comes up every single time, and it's a consistent topic in your conversations, then of course that needs to be something that you create content around.

[00:39:48] And the framework to commercializing that is understanding which bits of content within that campaign there to help you get discovered which bits are there to build trust. And which bits are there to create a conversation, help them. That's a really useful, valuable content and I think a lot of people are going to gain a lot of value from that.

[00:40:12] Chris OHare: [00:40:12] So I really appreciate you sharing that. And the thing is a lot of people are going to see what it is, when it comes to creating content and they see it's a big time drain, right? This must be probably one of your biggest questions or it's one of my biggest problems with content is that it just takes so long to create So if we look at kind of the ROI factor, can we put a number on that value of the content by if we're creating X amount of content?

[00:40:43] Do we know that it's going to pop up with some number someday? You just to be intentional about it? So you have to have an idea of what good looks like. If I'm going to spend this much time on something or spend money on it or whatever. You at least have to have an idea of what you want to get out of it at the end.

[00:41:02]Toby Moore: [00:41:02] There is no magic number. There is no perfect ratio because that's different for everybody because what one customer like looked like to you. Will look differently to me. Like depending on how much time it takes a service that customer, depending on how much they're going to charge, you're going to charge them, sorry.

[00:41:19]                                                                                                                                  And so on and so forth. And what might cost me a hundred pounds to create my costume. 30 pounds to create because of your technique and your approach or whatever. What you might get from that customer might be significantly greater than what I would get from that customer.

[00:41:33] And so it's a really, it's more about just understanding what your intention is, what would you like that to be? What would you like to get out of this? And I think ultimately I like to take people through this process, which is helping them understand what the, the mission is behind their content.

[00:41:55] Like what are they looking to achieve for themselves through helping other people to achieve something else? And then every time you come to creating a piece of content, you have to judge it against that thing. So if it's I want to be able to create a.  Community of content creators by helping them, build more easily, easy to easy to understand content strategies or something like that.

[00:42:19] Like I now know that everyone that interacts with that content is somehow going to be relevant for X service or Y service or B product.  And so understanding what those things are and understanding the journeys between starting the piece of content all the way through to engaging with a product or a service.

[00:42:35] And then I can start to judge. It's not judging whether the content is performing, but the journey is performing and not in like a funnel, click funnel, hacker kind of way. It's more. More nuanced than that. And hopefully it's more human than that as well. It's more about just answering that specific question in a very kind of  intentional sort of level or depth.

[00:43:00]So no, I think, sorry, I've taken a very long route to not even answering the question. And I think the answer is unless you're some super company that is putting, 10,000 pounds plus a month into Facebook adverts. And you need to generate X amount of qualified leads out of the back of answer that sales can generate 25 million worth of revenue by the end of the year or something like that.

[00:43:22]You don't need to be thinking like that. And I like to encourage people to move away from calls to actions and move towards school, to conversations so that you're not just going click on my website, click on my website, download my thing, filling my form, fill out my form.

[00:43:35] And you're thinking much more about if you're interested in this topic, I'd love to have a conversation with you about it. Send me a direct message, leave a note in the comments that sort of thing, and actually going, if you're someone that only, you're looking to sell consulting services or stuff like that in the same way that you and I are, like, we're not looking for that level of ratio and ROI in that way, we're looking to try and meet the right kinds of people that want.

[00:44:02]Help. And we do that by making them feel like they're welcome in our conversations that we're creating within our content. So rather than trying to create that blog post, that drives people to the newsletter that sends them an automated series of things, hoping that they might download another ebook.

[00:44:20] And then once they've bought the e-book, we then send them another thing saying, Hey, would you like a 30 minute phone call? West where's the West. That person is opportunity to imagine what it's like to have a conversation with you in that journey. Whereas if they get to see 60 seconds worth of this podcast and they go, Chris is a nice dude.

[00:44:41] He may say he seems to come across well. We do well on the phone together, and then it's, and then it's the content journey is giving them that is allowing them to build enough trust with you to feel comfortable, getting on zoom. Sorry, we don't have phone calls anymore. Do we? We have some calls getting on zoom and having this conversation and exploring what working together might look like.

[00:45:01] That's the whole goal. Particularly in this kind of like very visual podcast, video led content world. It's just giving people the opportunity to imagine what it's like to work with you. And the very first stop there is imagining what it's like to have a conversation with you. And that's what I think we should be working to achieve.

[00:45:23]That's the thing, that's the goal from content, not a number. Yeah. Basically what you're saying is that, we should be making digital, marketing more human and not about the analytics and actually it's about building relationships. And I think that's, what's so great about video content or audio content is that you are creating a relationship with someone because you can see them, you can see the mannerisms, you see how they act.

[00:45:50] Chris OHare: [00:45:50] And you know that when you pick up a phone with that person or is zoom call. Do you know what they're going to lie? They're going to be like, and what kind of the typical responses that they're going to come out with? So we remarked on it just as we were starting this I feel like I've watched so many of your videos that we just know each other already.

[00:46:09] Toby Moore: [00:46:09] And then and 30% of the hard work is done. The, getting to know each other a bit, like we've done it already by just watching each other's stuff. So you know, how we behave and what we say and all that sort of thing is hopefully it's not too much of an ugly surprise.

[00:46:22] Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I love that. And that's another reason why I'm doing this is because it allows me to connect with my customers and my audience in a more human way. And I think you pretty much. Yeah. Hit the nail on the head with what you just said. But saying that there must be a formula for the amount of touch points to give to your customer, that they will then turn around and say, you know what, I'll have a chat with them or do you honestly think it's  love at first sight and they see you and they're like, yeah we'll talk to that person.

[00:47:01] There was the used to be when I first got into the game, there was this bit of data that was floating around. That like with the emergence of social media, the average customer has to have 12 touch points with you before they'll buy anything. A useful starting point, perhaps, however, so significantly.

[00:47:21] It just depends on so many things. You know what I mean? Like I for example I'm looking to book a particular speaker for TEDx next year and and I just saw a LinkedIn post of someone going, Oh, I've just bought this book. It's fab. And I took one look at the post and was like, that looks like an interesting book.

[00:47:43] And I went onto Amazon and bought the book. And three days later, I'm on the phone to the author going, I'd like to, I'd like you to speak at TEDx Brian the next year, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now I've got a relationship with it, and so AAF bought the book and then be like, he's now getting the thing that he's probably aiming to achieve with the book anyway, which is speaking opportunities.

[00:48:01] Where was, where were the touch points? Where are these imaginary touchpoints? I just looked at  this woman's LinkedIn post and paid nine 99 for the book. And then, whereas, but then there, there are there probably a dozen other examples in my day-to-day life where that's not the case.

[00:48:19] When does this podcast go out? Will it go out before or after Christmas? Ask Christmas. Great. Cool. So I bought my, my girlfriend is a Northern last and she constantly teases me for being here. Porsche softy southerner. And around the corner from our house is a croquet lawn. And I keep teasing her that I'm going to join the croquet club when lockdowns over.

[00:48:40] And she thinks that's the the the epitome of my softy, this, so for Christmas, I bought her a croquet set and, but I've bought several croquet sets and sent them back and so on because it's not quite right. Do you mean unlike? So again, like where are the. How do you measure that journey?

[00:48:58] Like how do you measure that? If we hadn't, if I hadn't had this silly conversation with my partner about croquet, if we hadn't moved to a house where there's a croquet law around the corner, if if all of these things that led to me buying two croquet sets or farmers, like how do you measure that?

[00:49:16]There was, there, isn't some kind of like thought leader on Amazon talking about the qualities of the croquet lifestyle or something. And then somebody might subscribe to their newsletter and then engaged with three of their retargeting adverts and then bought two co-case ads.

[00:49:31]That's not how it happens. There's a whole conversation that's gone on completely outside of the view and control of the seller of the product. And it was a great thing that someone yelled at me at a content club event a couple of years ago. That was when we were talking about conversational content and someone said something along the lines of the job isn't to create a conversation is to join one.

[00:49:55] And I thought it was just brilliant. And for me like that, just one of those moments where like my I changed onto a different train track, and started going in a different direction with how I thought about something, because it's absolutely right. And one of the, one of the most sort of high-profile jobs I've had, if you like was to.

[00:50:10] I was working for footsie 100 company and they wanted me to build a community platform for them. And they had a six figure budget to build a forum basically. And I spent it gladly, but but but ultimately it was for a marketplace where the community already existed. It just existed on somebody else's platform.

[00:50:30] And it'd probably actually been built by the professional community, not by a brand, so there are all of these things that existed all of these spaces that existed where the community was coming together. But the brand  was hell bent on owning the community platform because then they could control how they sold within that platform and so on.

[00:50:50] And, and that was like three, four go out and have way more than that five years ago, maybe at least, and I would bet you, they've not made that. That six figure budget back on that platform yet. Do you know what I mean? Because. Who are they engaging with? There's all the communities already over here doing its thing.

[00:51:06] The conversations are already happening, your job as the contributor to, to, to your industry. And as the thought leader, and as the content creator is to step into those conversations and provide something valuable, to contribute in a meaningful way. And then it's become respected in the platform that's already been built for you as a useful contributor in that industry.

[00:51:29] So going off and trying to create a brand new platform and be like, Hey guys, w with there in the same thing that you're doing, that we're doing it over here, definitely come over here. And they're like, yeah, this place is cool. Like it's beer and pizza, this one. And they're like, we might get some of that later.

[00:51:44] Like just no way. And so you have to understand where the conversation is already going on, and then you have to go and become a meaningful contributor to that conversation. Not. Try and bring people away from where they're already getting their value and where they're already getting enjoyment and education from.

[00:52:02] And it can be stowed so tempting as a brand to build a platform and build something that you're not solving a problem for your audience. You're solving a problem for you. I can't measure that. I can't see that I can't sell for that. And it's not a good enough problem. And. It's not a problem that your audience is experiencing either.

[00:52:23]And I think as we start to talk about numbers and so on it's really important to understand that reliable. Yeah. I think that's really valuable the fact that you can demonstrate the randomness of a purchase, instead of going through an authoritative, croquet expert, you basically saw these chain of events that led you to purchase that.

[00:52:51] Chris OHare: [00:52:51] And I guess. In a lot of ways. Life is a bit like that in general and businesses. We like that opportunities. Aren't very random, but I guess what we're trying to do is give ourselves a fighting chance to be seen or heard and be available when the time comes that they need to make that purchase. Yeah. And I'll give you an example, is that I'm working with a bed retailer, who are we doing? All their it systems. And a purchase of a mattress is every 10 years. So how do they stay in the minds of people, but 10 years for that purchase, then to come around again? Obviously there might be other patches in the meantime, but it's about building that lifetime value with that.

[00:53:42] When I first started my agency APA, one of my very first clients was Eve mattresses long before they IPO and all of that sort of stuff.  And yeah, their goal was to build a community around the brand. And that was my job was to go in there and. And write the plan, run the strategy for that.

[00:53:58] Toby Moore: [00:53:58] And and they very happily, acknowledged in their meetings that, traditionally people buy a mattress every seven years, but like, how do we build a lifestyle around that mattress? And how do we turn a mattress into something more a dining table or a light fitting that is not about.

[00:54:18] It's not that the functionality is is assumed to be fantastic. And when we move, when we go beyond the functionality of the mattress, we're now looking at  what fashionable qualities?  What character, how does it reflect our personal character and so on and our own home.

[00:54:34] And then all these mattresses have their color is yellow and all of the photographs are of it with no bedsheet on. Like somehow that works. They all have no bed sheet on this, like lovely beaming, yellow around the edge of it being blue or something like that. And it creates an identity, and then you can create obviously the opposite products, like the lamp and the pajamas and the pillow and all of this sort of stuff.

[00:54:55] And you build the yellow into it or the blue, whatever. But the success comes from building a lifestyle community around the product so that it's not just. Your mattress in your bedroom, it's the mattress in your two spare rooms. And it's your, when you have a baby, it's the cock mattress. And then you've got to get the pillows and then you've got to get the bed linen, and then you've got to buy all.

[00:55:19] Now they actually sell a bed, and then you've got to get the bed and then, and the candles and all this sort of stuff. And then a couple of years go by, or maybe even less than that. And then you're like, Ooh, they've released a new one. Oh, this one's got to. A slightly different design on it, and they did this really cool thing where they would like partner with really famous artists and the creative director he had come from channel four. So he was like super well connected in regards to like famous artists and stuff. And they would partner with these artists and get these mattresses made with like really cool, much cooler than my art, obviously.

[00:55:53]But  and that'd be like, and that would be like some like designer piece of. Mattress furniture and people just loved it because they bought into this brand. The thing that the brand stood for, the lifestyle qualities that it stood for, that its competitors perhaps didn't or what differentiates it.

[00:56:11] And to the point where, yeah, they'll have these super customers that just feel their house with Eve style. And it's just in the same way that lots of us fill our house with Ikea stuff or something, and it's just you can do this and yeah, there's some number crunching to be done, like in terms of retargeting your aunts and finding the customers and see which ones buy and then getting them to buy another thing and all that sort of thing.

[00:56:33] And you can get science-y and ATRI about that, but, you're also talking about. You've got a lot of numbers to play with and when you're turning over like North of a hundred, 200 million a year or something like those numbers really start to matter. And, if you're the other end of that, you'll just making, you're a carpenter and you make wooden bed frames for people and you can make two or three bed frames a month.

[00:56:59] And that's your life, and that that ticks all the boxes that you needed to take weight, that's all the way down the other end of the spectrum. You're, you, can't on two or three sales a month, like you're not looking for,  Whatever, whatever percentage ROI on your Facebook ads or something like that, you're looking to work out how you use content to turn your existing customers into advocates of your work and stuff.

[00:57:21] And that's quite different. And that's like trying to understand how do you enable your customers? How do you enable you? Community champions around the brand and all of that split things. So it's a slightly different, not slightly different team. It's a completely different game. And ultimately it's about trying to understand the conversations you're trying to create and become a part of so that when people go, anyone look at anyone, know anyone that makes beds that in the same way that you described, like you're the first person that people think of.

[00:57:51]Yeah. Again, a very long journey to a very simple answer, but people are really getting value from your thought process. So because then they can think the same as you. All right. I think were pretty much coming to the end of this podcast. So let's talk about the, your top three quick wins.

[00:58:14] Chris OHare: [00:58:14] Enabled people to accelerate their content creation whether that's skills or the actual content itself in the shortest amount of time, what do you think those would be? First one is build templates. So like for example, I have a pretty standard set of blogging templates. And particularly if I've got a big client piece of work on I need to right.

[00:58:37]Toby Moore: [00:58:37] 10,000 words in a month or something like that with a blog content, it's not going to happen and I've templated my work. So I'm not going to really simply templates. I use, which for most of it, which is like, What why and how, and it's 20%, what? 30%. Why? 50%. How now I know that if I write a good what heading and why heading and how heading, give myself a fixed work count within those headings.

[00:59:01]That's what allows me to produce lots of content very quickly. So the first thing is to go before you go and create your next piece of content, go and create templates for those bits of content. That's thing. Number one I think number two is to write a list of questions. Ideally think about it from the perspective of a person that you have a customer like relationship with.

[00:59:24] Think of five questions that customer might have, and then come up with five ways of answering each question. And this is a 10, 15 minute activity, five questions, five answers, potential answers under each heading. And then what you're looking at when your piece of paper is 25 potential ideas for content.

[00:59:41] If you then have three different types of templates to apply to each of those things, like that's a year's worth of content nice way. And you can create, you can create a year's worth of catalog content in 15 minutes, if you want to, if you follow that process I would highly recommend.

[00:59:58] To anyone who's sitting there going, but I don't know what to create a content around about. Do that. Imagine someone write the questions, write the answers, look at it on a piece of paper, put it on your wall. And then the next time you come to create content, you pick a question, you pick a template and you go and that allows you to create content at 332 times faster than you ever have done before.

[01:00:23]And then the very last. Thing the number three would be attracted to less. I think much like everything else that we worry about, whether it's like eating more healthily, doing more exercise, looking like the person that we saw on Instagram this morning, all this sort of stuff. When we get, when we start getting a bit stuck in on things like YouTube, LinkedIn, and so on.

[01:00:46]We can get really nervous about how little content we're creating. And then the reaction to that is to give also some unobtainable goal, just like we would, if we get, we see lots of skinny people on the internet, and then we have some unobtainable goal to be skinny, or might we see someone like running three marathons a day or something they're like, Oh God, now I need to be unobtainable fit.

[01:01:11] And it's exactly the same with content production because it's not unfortunately like content production gets like. In some worlds get thrown in the bucket with being like a millionaire in three weeks or something like that, and we have to definitely stop listening to those people, but we also have to stop looking at those people and other people that we like and respect.

[01:01:31]And I think that sets a bar for what we should be doing because I haven't created a piece of video content for months.  But people are still talking about my video content. Do you mean like it's still considered useful and available and it pops up enough, for people to, if I can get away with not creating a video for months Everyone else certainly can because I'm supposed to be waving the flag on this thing.

[01:01:58] You know what I mean? And so I think half give yourself less to do because a you'll just feel happier because that's more achievable a and B like it's, that's a good step towards not comparing yourself to everyone else all the time. You decide what's manageable. You decide what you can achieve and just be happy with that.

[01:02:21] Because as soon as you set that objective too high for yourself. You'll fail to reach it, and then you'll be demotivated to do anything else again. And then you'll just get into this like stupid spiral of getting angry yourself because you didn't create content. And then another week goes by and you get even angry at yourself.

[01:02:38] And then you talk yourself out of doing anything ever again. And then as soon as you don't believe in your content, you stop believing in your business. As soon as you stop living in your business, you stop believing in your. Ideas. And as soon as you start believing in your ideas, you stop believing in yourself.

[01:02:51] And, that's a  very dangerous slope to be sliding down.  Pick an, a manageable goal and just do that. And don't worry about other people create loads of stuff. And don't worry about what I do either. And if I tell you to create templates and you're like, I don't have time to create a place just to your best life coaching now.

[01:03:17] Yeah. Would definitely don't want me to be your life coach. That would be a disaster. I promise you that would be a disaster. Two of those. I do. I definitely do the lots of too I had this thing that I had to create content every week. And then I was like, I drive a create better content and do it when I feel in the zone and I can do it.

[01:03:37] Chris OHare: [01:03:37] And that's what I'm doing now, the first one though, I never made a template. So I tend to just take a question and then I'll write a letter, put a points. About that question, like stuff that I would find interesting. And then I try and then form it into a story.  Think a template would actually make my life a hell of a lot easier do have templates because you sent me one.

[01:03:59] Toby Moore: [01:03:59] So for example, this podcast is templated in the sense that you created an agenda for it. But if you were to look at the different types of content that you create, so yeah, I write blogs, I create podcasts, I create short videos and then you go, okay how do I create a. How do I have a slightly more uniform approach to building those templates so that you, so they're more reusable and they become an asset in themselves so that you're not having to start from scratch every single time.

[01:04:27] And and I'm sure like with your videos that you create, for example, you've probably done enough now to know what you're what you can, how you're going to start, how you're going to. Share something in the middle and how you're going to finish. And just getting that documented so that you can see it as a part of your content strategy and so on as a hugely beneficial piece of work to do, because then when you decide that you want to create a slightly longer video, or you want to move that to a different format, or you want to move to a different platform, like God forbid, Tik TOK or something like that, you're not having to think about how am I going to create a video?

[01:05:04] You just go, okay I just need to. Take the elements of the template and change the time I'm going to spend or the word count or whatever. And that's how you can easily scale up a 500 word blog into a 1500 word blog, for example, by just moving the sliders around one of the template. And  as I filled out the post-it works thing that's going to be a big.

[01:05:26] Part of it for me, as well as being able to go let's democratize content templates so that we can, so that I'm not having to tell people to build them on. They can just pick one. And I think, all of these things are very useful tools and assets and just think about, when people want to build a content strategy, because they think that's going to enable them to create content. Think about the content and the assets within the strategy that can enable you to do that topics types of templates three days. Okay. Love it. So if people want to go away and learn some more about content creation, what resources would you recommend?

[01:06:05]If you go to content club.io or learned, or it works you can access the content club framework that I. I mentioned earlier for free and and if you want to join our content club, Facebook group, that's a nice way to. Learn from others as well. Which is just content club with a little rockets on the end on Facebook easy to find, and those would be my number one resources to go to for learning more about content.

[01:06:32] Of course they will be on how can people connect with you if they want to chat with you a bit more about what is 10 is my social network of choice. So you can look for a Toby with a little rocket on the end, be more on LinkedIn. Great. Thanks, Toby. Really appreciate your time on this. I found this incredibly useful and I'm sure a lot of people listening to this would find it useful too.

[01:06:54] Chris OHare: [01:06:54] So thank you. Great. Thank you.

[01:07:06] Toby clearly knows a lot about creating content and I loved his croquet analogy. It's so true, but what did you think of Toby's quick wins. Quick win. Number one, build templates for your content before creating them. So you can just pick a template off the shelf and get going quick, win number two for content ideas, right?

[01:07:25] Lots of questions from the perspective of a person and combine them with a template quick win number three, try to do less. Don't hold yourself to high standards and create content when you can. But what was your favorite bit of the show? Tell me on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tik, TOK, or YouTube, where you can find me with at head is still don't forget.

[01:07:48] You can also watch this show on YouTube or listen on all major podcast platforms, including Apple and Spotify. And remember, I'm giving away 10 of my favorite business books, including lean startup and business model generation to one lucky winner. And these are great levels of skill from a CEO to a founder.

[01:08:06] And so all you need to do is go to Apple podcast, subscribe this course at the bottom and leave a review and it doesn't have to be detailed. You can just say that you love this podcast. Then email [email protected]. With a copy of your review. Anyway, thank you for listening. And until next time, I'm your quick wins CEO signing out.

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